Again, the Ch’ing Dynasty is irrelevant. @Liam_Og wants to know how to help his Chinese when he’s in the lift, not revive a 19th century way of speaking.
Ah books. What a reliable source. Like bible, they must always be correct and no fault can be found from them.
You can hear it all around you. I’ve proven it anecdotally and with sources.
I choose not to speak like a PRC person cause I live in Taiwan, the country.
I’m not having problems in the lift or outside getting people to understand me.
It’s 2021.
I just find that I do what I think is a rising tone but people still hear four. This obviously is entirely a function of my linguistic incompetence. I think it’s kinda funny. I get by pretty well usually, bit that word has me snookered
I don’t need to cuz that’s as basic as abc in mandarin. You can cite whatever books you like it wouldn’t change the fact. Any native speaker or any one with decent knowledge of mandarin pronunciation would know what I’m talking about. I’m done with this nonsense.
unfortunately @Liam_Og doesn’t have a time machine so your arguments about how they did it in the Ch’ing Dynasty is irrelevant.
Secondly, comparing a scholarly paper vs the Bible is a false equivalency.
I get by in lifts pretty well, thank you very much 
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I think some Taiwanese Mandarin pronunciations and southern Chinese in general are closer to what standard Chinese was. North had a pronunciation shift.
Clearly you have never heard of philosophy of science or sarcasm.
It is relevant in terms of linguistics and other discipline.
No it isn’t. Language is fluid and changes over time. The OP and @Liam_Og are talking about now. Not the history of linguistics.
@Chineasy isn’t asking about starting a history course.
Even the kid knows the difference.
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It changes over time, but there are still indirect and direct evidence to prove my point. You do know that we have voice records from many many many years ago right. And there’s rhyme and stuff. Also written record. Dude. Show some respect to the disciplines that you’re not familiar with.
The past is not relevant to conversations that happen in 2021.
I’m allowed to have an opinion. This is a democracy.
Yea I told’im the difference. Change the tone to the rising tone to get 10 and everyone’ll understand’im.
I wouldn’t say that. There is a propensity to substitute F for H, certainly, but it’s not universal.
Yes
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I mean the H is not pronounced in 10. Sorry.
10 in Taiwanese mandarin in 2021 is pronounced like 4 with a rising tone.
And I told you that ㄙ is different from ㄕ
Omg I just can’t I’m dropping this thread
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My two cents: I can tell the difference. It’s often subtle. Very subtle at times. But the difference is there. These: 屎,死 sound similar in a Taiwanese accent, but don’t sound exactly the same.
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Yes. But in Taiwanese mandarin today, in 2021… A good chunk of the country, if not most people pronounce ㄕ as ㄙ. This is my opinion and my observation.
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