Taichung airport has 6 flights a day to HK, interesting Songshan doesn’t but its busy with direct flights to major cities already. The city link flights are really great for regional business, no doubt about it.
I have flown Taichung<->Hong Kong a few times. It’s wonderful not having to drive up to Taoyuan.
[quote=“Hokwongwei”]I was referring to cities like San Francisco (14 km out of city), LAX (in the city, but about 20 km from downtown, although nobody goes downtown), LaGuardia (less than 10 km from Manhattan), Ronald Reagan (5 km out of DC), Honolulu International (around 5 km)…
For comparison, Taoyuan International is at least 40 km outside of Taipei. More importantly, when you leave the airport there is nothing there but fields. All of the airports listed above are at least in urban areas; Taoyuan International is separated by a whole city and in the next county over.[/quote]
what exactly is around SFO? Most of California is just an endless sub-urban sprawl interleaved with desert landscapes. By the way, to get to SFO from downtown SF in 14km, you would have to fly there or get there by a speed boat or something. Driving there takes 22km.
If you really want to talk counties, SFO isn’t in San Francisco, it’s in San Mateo County.
DC is mostly a sub-urban sprawl, and like LaGuardia, most flight out of Reagan National airport aren’t international, and it’s only so close because it’s across the river from metropolitan areas.
Honolulu is a special case, i suppose if you have to put an large airport on a small island with a lot of natural resources you want to protect, then there’s really no where else to go.
Frankly, none of them are remotely similar to SongShan airport and its surrounding, since none of them are actually inside the city.
For those in Southern Taiwan, it’s quicker to go through the High Speed Rail. For those on the east coast or other islands, 30 minute on the MRT probably isn’t the mot arduous part of their journey.
[quote=“Taiwanguy”]
With an airport downtown, a businessman in Hong Kong can take a morning flight in an hour and a half, immediately be in downtown Taipei, take the MRT or a quick taxi ride to a meeting, and then be on a return flight by evening. Flying to Taoyuan adds at least another 45 minutes x 2 ways in addition to a more substantial cab fee.[/quote]
sounds great, but there are no such flights. it’s either China or Japan at Songshan.
[quote=“Hokwongwei”]The DPP has been going on about scrapping Songshan since even before there were direct flights to Shanghai from the airport. I really don’t get why unless they’re in bed with construction firms. The excuse of “there’s too much noise in a residential area” doesn’t stand up to scrutiny; if homeowners cared about that, they wouldn’t have bought near an airport in the first place.
Meanwhile, northerners heading to Taidong may not find it terribly inconvenient to go head to Taoyuan, but people who live in Taidong and are coming up to Taipei for business or whatnot will be extremely inconvenienced to have to go through Taoyuan on the way there.[/quote]
Sorry to stray in the airport thing, but regarding construction and stuff, the first thing Lien proposed was to bury the Hsinsheng Expressway. His argument? People had complained about the noise. Most laughed his idea off but coming from the people who gave us the Flora Expo Park, I am a bit concerned about what kind of “urban remodeling” plans politicians here have.
The Songshan Airport has been accused of many things, mainly a security issue. It is indeed, convenient, but it is also next to a military base. However, I am with Hongkongwei regarding most pressure could be from developers. And developers can really wield a lot of power. Many casualties in their wake.
[quote=“hansioux”]
For those in Southern Taiwan, it’s quicker to go through the High Speed Rail. For those on the east coast or other islands, 30 minute on the MRT probably isn’t the mot arduous part of their journey. [/quote]
There is no 30 minute MRT ride to downtown Taipei from Taoyuan Airport.
See my above post.
[quote=“Taiwanguy”][quote=“hansioux”]
For those in Southern Taiwan, it’s quicker to go through the High Speed Rail. For those on the east coast or other islands, 30 minute on the MRT probably isn’t the mot arduous part of their journey. [/quote]
There is no 30 minute MRT ride to downtown Taipei from Taoyuan Airport.
[/quote]
for now.
in 2 year at most that MRT line will be up and running. Currently you can take a shuttle to the THSR station and hop on that, but most busses can get to Taipei within 40 minutes, unless your fight is at peak hours.
[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“Taiwanguy”][quote=“hansioux”]
For those in Southern Taiwan, it’s quicker to go through the High Speed Rail. For those on the east coast or other islands, 30 minute on the MRT probably isn’t the mot arduous part of their journey. [/quote]
There is no 30 minute MRT ride to downtown Taipei from Taoyuan Airport.
[/quote]
for now, in 2 year at most that MRT line will be up and running. for now you can take a shuttle to the THSR station and hope on that, but most busses can get to Taipei within 40 minutes, unless your fight is at peak hours.[/quote]
Plus the time it takes to get to main station. Which, for many parts of Taipei, will be longer than or the same as, the time it’d take someone to get to Songshan.
Which is to say nothing of the fact that Songshan’s International terminal is fast and efficient, most better than Taoyuan.
[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“Taiwanguy”][quote=“hansioux”]
For those in Southern Taiwan, it’s quicker to go through the High Speed Rail. For those on the east coast or other islands, 30 minute on the MRT probably isn’t the mot arduous part of their journey. [/quote]
There is no 30 minute MRT ride to downtown Taipei from Taoyuan Airport.
[/quote]
for now.
in 2 year at most that MRT line will be up and running. Currently you can take a shuttle to the THSR station and hop on that, but most busses can get to Taipei within 40 minutes, unless your fight is at peak hours.[/quote]
All of these things take significantly more time than stepping out the door of Songshan and immediately getting on the brown line or boarding a taxi already in the city. The discussion is moot anyway. Taiwan has signed long-term agreements with many regional airports. Songshan Airport isn’t going anywhere in the foreseeable future.
[quote=“cfimages”]
Which is to say nothing of the fact that Songshan’s International terminal is fast and efficient, most better than Taoyuan.[/quote]
- Convenience of 30 minutes for 55,000 passengers doesn’t seem outweigh security and development for a city in my books. I can see why those who live in Taipei, but not immediately around it, enjoys it, but I frankly don’t see the point of having a huge lot as Hok said there jut to service 55000 annually, which comes as a environmental and flooding risk to the city.
- It’s not like Taoyuan is ridiculously far. It is within reasonable distance for most airports.
- Songshan did not have international flights from 1979 to 2008, it’s not like people stopped travelling to Taipei because the airport isn’t in Taipei.
- Unless people are saying if the airport is not in Taipei, they are not conducting business in Taiwan, otherwise I don’t see why the airport must stay.
Songshan/Hong Kong? I sometimes do day-trips to Hong Kong and always use Taoyuan because there are/were no direct flights to/from Hong Kong. Are there flights now and any idea what airlines? Thanks.[/quote]
I was just throwing out an example. You’re right, though. There are no current flights between Songshan and Hong Kong…but the example is the same if you substitute Kaohsiung, Shanghai, Tokyo, or whatever for Hong Kong.[/quote]
Yea, I like the Haneda option for downtown Tokyo. And hoping to catch some of the flights to China.
[quote=“tango42”]
Yea, I like the Haneda option for downtown Tokyo. And hoping to catch some of the flights to China.[/quote]
your so called Haneda option is a good 20KM away from downtown Tokyo like a sane normal airport.
it only seem like a better option because Narita is 70 frakking KMs away.
[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“cfimages”]
Which is to say nothing of the fact that Songshan’s International terminal is fast and efficient, most better than Taoyuan.[/quote]
- Convenience of 30 minutes for 55,000 passengers doesn’t seem outweigh security and development for a city in my books. I can see why those who live in Taipei, but not immediately around it, enjoys it, but I frankly don’t see the point of having a huge lot as Hok said there jut to service 55000 annually, which comes as a environmental and flooding risk to the city.[/quote]
Do you mean it’s a security risk? How?
Development - does Taipei really need more over priced apartments and shopping malls?
Is it a flood risk? More development in the area would be more likely to make it a flood risk.
Make no mistake, if they did away with it, the developers would be snapping that land up.
Regional links: Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and China. The regional aspect of this plan is exactly what makes it attractive, especially with the current administration’s single-minded fascination with one large neighbour across the strait.
Guy
[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“cfimages”]
Which is to say nothing of the fact that Songshan’s International terminal is fast and efficient, most better than Taoyuan.[/quote]
-
Convenience of 30 minutes for 55,000 passengers doesn’t seem outweigh security and development for a city in my books. I can see why those who live in Taipei, but not immediately around it, enjoys it, but I frankly don’t see the point of having a huge lot as Hok said there jut to service 55000 annually, which comes as a environmental and flooding risk to the city.
-
It’s not like Taoyuan is ridiculously far. It is within reasonable distance for most airports.
-
Songshan did not have international flights from 1979 to 2008, it’s not like people stopped travelling to Taipei because the airport isn’t in Taipei.
-
Unless people are saying if the airport is not in Taipei, they are not conducting business in Taiwan, otherwise I don’t see why the airport must stay.[/quote]
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55,000 annually?
try 5.6 million. 1.3 million on the Tokyo route alone. -
It’s not “ridiculously” far…but it is annoyingly far for frequent travelers or those making day trips.
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This is a ridiculous argument. No one is saying that travel to Taipei will stop without Songshan, but the Songshan Airport can and does increase traffic…especially for business.
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The airport will stay. Taiwan has already signed long-term agreements with airports and airlines in Shanghai, Tokyo, Xiamen, etc.
I lived in the city of Dallas, Texas, for one unpleasant year. But regardless of what I thought of the place, it’s the airport situation that’s relevant to this discussion. Until 1974, the city’s airport was Love Field which boasts a very convenient location not far from downtown. But due to limited space for expansion, the huge new Dallas-Ft Worth International Airport was built with a much less convenient location (and is now the third busiest airport in the world). It was assumed that Love Field would soon be closed as all the airlines moved to the new airport.
But it didn’t work out that way. Upstart Southwest Airlines made Love Field its headquarters, and became hugely popular as a regional carrier. This pissed off the City of Fort Worth and the DFW International Airport authority. They actually got a law passed restricting the number of gates, flights and destinations that could be flown from Love Field. Despite the legal harassment, Love Field prospered. It was finally recognized that Love Field was having a very positive economic impact on the city of Dallas, which has now rallied around Southwest Airlines (which, as it turned out, has become the USA’s most profitable airline). But the legal harassment has still continued, for 40 years now.
The history of the whole thing can be found on a Wikipedia page here. It’s a short read and worth taking a look.
So yes, I think a strong economic argument for regional airports can be made. Love Field is hardly unique - Shanghai’s Hongqiao, Tokyo’s Haneda, Seoul’s Gimpo, Oakland (California) Airport, London’s Gatwick are other examples.
Closing or not closing Songshan Airport is an issue that should be decided based mainly on economic considerations. It should have nothing to do with partisanship. It’s certainly a relevant topic for the contenders for next Taipei mayor to debate. It would be nice if for once the standard blue vs green tribal loyalties could be put aside and the issue gets decided based on its own merits. The chance of that happening is probably nil, but I can always hope.
Love Field does not do international flights and only does regional, none-cross continental flights. When I flew into Dallas from SF, I ended up in JFK instead of Love Field.
The downside of DFW is that there is no public transportation to speak of, and as I recall the taxi fare isn’t cheap.
55,000 thousand annually.
Over 10% of them are Chinese tourists going around trips.
figure from government report.
[quote=“cfimages”]
Do you mean it’s a security risk? How?
Development - does Taipei really need more over priced apartments and shopping malls?
Is it a flood risk? More development in the area would be more likely to make it a flood risk.
Make no mistake, if they did away with it, the developers would be snapping that land up.[/quote]
As I stated, that area should be left as a wetland park as natural intended it to be.
If there’s any kind of development there, it should at least look like the developments in Foster City, CA.
And you know full well it won’t. It’ll be snapped up by whichever development company is closest to whichever party is in power at the time.
It might be interesting to see what links the various politicians calling for its closure have to construction companies.
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