Yes I believe this is probably the case.
This isn’t a coup. This is a direction of travel for the majority of Ukranians who want to integrate closer to Europe than Russia.
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You realize we are talking about the events in 2014, right?
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majority of Ukraine wanted to integrate with Europe not with their soviet slave lords. Isn’t that how democracy works? Saying this is the wests fault is confusing to me. It’s also still very confusing to me how you can be so pro-russia living in Taiwan. Every time I bring this up @crusher and @cake both ignore me, and don’t want to actually let me dig deeper into the reason. You do realize Taiwanese government officials do read these forums and they are probably sitting there reading some of your posts in shock.
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I’m not pro Russia, in fact I denounce them over and over.
But facts matter. I can respect @yanganlun for making a case that what happened in 2014 was a revolution and not a coup. I don’t think if you look at the details though a coup isn’t in fact a more accurate description. At least @yanganlun is discussing rationally, unlike the name calling others seem to need to resort to with a lack of any other substance.
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Blockquote
Once again the sequence of events:
- Yanukovich screws the association with EU agreement under the pressure from Putin.
- People come to protest, peacefully.
- 30 November 2013. Yanukovich orders Berkut to remove people from the square. The violence is done, the blood is spilled.
- It triggers huge massive protest with barricades, etc.
- The result: Yanukovich flees. He started violence - people responded. His legitimacy was screwed.
- Ukraine has the elections when they elect new parliament and president.
In my opinion - this is revolution. How do you define coup d’etat? Read history… I brought an example of Chile 1973 before.
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Until you have watched the 5 minutes that refutes this claim and the role right sector played in agitating violence as well as the political maneuverings by others, we will be going around in circles.
The claim you make here is refuted, I gave the 5 minute clip that refutes the sequence of events. But you have yet to watch it.
The clip deals with the days leading up to 30 Nov and deals with the events of that day and who they think ordered the police to crack down and who that person was aligned with politically.
I’ve used up a lot more than 5 minutes of my times, going around in circles the least you could do is watch what is being rebutted with 5 minutes of your time.
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You sent a film “Ukraine on Fire” by Oliver Stone. I don’t see any 5 min clip that refutes by claims …
Whatever it is “Right Sector” could provide a muscle for maidan revolution. It just did not have much levers on power, like parliament after the democratic elections that followed the maidan events.
I suggested watching from 34 minutes to 39.30, so actually 5 and a half minutes.
I also linked the Gaurdian article which called what happened a coup. You may not agree with that take, I would say the facts would lead an objective person to lean towards that position though.
You didn’t answer my question while I am answering yours, if it was indeed a coup, should western governments be engaged in ousting foreign leaders to put a more favorable leader to them in their place?
Who poisoned Viktor Yushchenko?
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Woah… that is intense. The Canadian sniper Wali is now in Donbas, and a couple Ukrainian soldiers who greeted him wouldn’t heed his warnings and put out their cigarettes. Moments later Russian tanks shelled exactly on their position, possibly because their cigarettes were picked up by Russian thermal vision equipment.
I think Wali almost died there.
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what is that? it just says LOGIN to Facebook.
Fascinating read. Thanks for sharing. Not convinced that the author’s theory of language and culture drives the current situation as much as argued, but it definitely sheds light on the cultural reasons for the current war.
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He has many other interesting takes (Twitter threads) on the Ukraine conflict. Gives some historical insights, why for Putin a war was logical and why it went so wrong.
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BlockquoteI suggested watching from 34 minutes to 39.30, so actually 5 and a half minutes.
Well, I watched it. Basically it says there was a provocation, which triggered 30 November events, allegedly by the Right Sector militia. I just see no reason why it could not be done by Yanukovich-hired “titushki”, and common sense and the knowledge of the situation tells me that this was the most likely case… This is their favorite tactics (KGB/FSB), I can judge at least from anti-Lukashenko protests in Belarus in 2020, which I followed closely and have insider information. Oliver Stone is a propagandist for sure, since he was hired by Putin to make a movie about him. Whatever it is, now there is a war going on, and Russia is definitely not on a just cause.
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And that’s exactly the same attitude China has towards Taiwan.
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Unfortunately, yes.
I agree, but this is a relevant question you keep dodging, I think it was a coup you characterize it as a revolution.
However, for the sake of arguments sake and let’s say it was a coup, should western governments be involved in overthrowing other countries governments?
I think it’s quite relevant, you might not agree that is what happened, but we should all agre we shouldn’t be doing that.
Bombing innocent children and villagers in Ukraine .
Yes it’s fron the mainsteam media.
And it’s real .@mick
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There is always a geopolitical struggle. The major players on the political arena try to bring smaller fishes into their sphere of influence. Ideologies like nationalism, imperialism, pragmatism, all intertwine in this game. Some little fishes evolve on these alliances and become bigger fishes, somehow it happened to be South Korea, but North Korea. Taiwan, by the way, Singapore, etc. I personally come from the country with a backwards asshole dictator, who has no legitimacy and sustains his power by the means of brainwashed country bumpkins with the weapons. I would not mind if Biden/Trump/whoever drops a bomb on this asshole, otherwise I see no future for my country as there are no legal ways to get rid of him, as such institutions as honest elections, constitution, human rights are totally corrupted.
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I’m starting to like you @yanganlun you can defend your opinions.
Some of us were getting very sick and tired of endless wars and the suffering they caused in many cases out of a desire to achieve regime change. Qaddafi in Libya was a dictator but did we improve the lives of Libyans with regime change? They have slave markets there now.
Or how about Syria? Something like 10 million people fled the violence and what is this all about? Who controls the oil and gas and pipelines.
Was the Yanukovich government corrupt? No doubt, it’s a corrupt country, didn’t stop with him or the President that followed him or the one after that.
Why would you think I would doubt it’s authenticity, oh right, you like to name call and pigeonhole people into easy to manage categories, you like to think in simplistic terms like “the good guys and the bad guys” because it makes processing things around you simpler.
I told you not to call me out unless you have a reason for doing so @Brianjones , certainly not to waste my time with your strawman attempts to imply something on an article I haven’t read or commented on.
People like you are the reason I end up not posting for days, predictable personal attacks, others have said they feel the same way, it’s not worth sharing ideas when people like you attack them for doing so.,
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