I’d like others’ opinions on what I should do, or what they would do in a similar situation.
I work at a non-teaching job (I don’t want to be too specific about where.) I’m a perfectionist workaholic (OK, anal.) I’m supposed to work from 1pm to 9pm. The earliest I have ever left is 9:30; I usually work until 11 or 12; occasionally until 1am. This is all unpaid overtime. The other people in the office (all Taiwanese) can come in whenever they like, as long as they work the right number of hours. Coming in at 1, 2 or 3, for example, doesn’t affect the work.
Today I got paid, and they docked me 2 hours pay because I came in late once; ie., I worked from 1:30 until 12 instead of 1 to 9.
I almost quit right then.
My immediate boss said that it is company policy and that they don’t care when you leave, only when you arrive.
Would you quit? I feel like it, but …
Now you know that coming in at the right time is more important than the overtime that you put in. Don’t sweat it. Maybe you are the junior person so you have to come in at the right time or you have a different contract than others. Might be a local vs foreigner thing.
And bababa, you now know that the overtime doesn’t matter. Go in at 1 and leave at 9. Adopt corporate culture to the fullest! Or, if you are anal (I was in the same situ) at least take a big fat lunch break that makes you feel better about the job. But don’t quit for that, unless you hate what you’re doing.
“You must destroy to create.”
Having said that, is the job satisfying? Pay is OK? Are you up for finding another job? Could you in the same setting?
Remember that in Taiwan, no one gives a shit about you doing overtime. If you want to do it, do it for your own sense of pride in doing a good job.
It’s the Taiwanese corporate culture most likely. We’re supposed to be in the office at 9:30, and my manager has come to speak to me whenever I come in later than, say, 9:45. I mentioned the same thing, that we sometimes stay overtime, until 7-8 or beyond. Our workday “officially” ends at 6:30. He said that it didn’t matter when we stayed to, but we should be in the office by 9:30. He goes on to say that technically, the workday starts at 9, and he’s cutting us slack by allowing us to come at 9:30. 
So, I don’t stay late anymore. I usually don’t stay past 7 anymore.
Taiwanese management hasn’t really caught on that they can get 50% more productivity out of the employees by just treating them 15% better. The sad thing is that from what I hear, our company actually has things pretty good, since we’re an American company. :s
In this particular case, if I come to work at say 10 or 10:30 as I did at my last job in the states, I’d get a lot more done, since I’m not a zombie for the first couple hours of the day, and I’m more inclined to stay late to get tasks done, rather than shutting everything down at 6:30.
While I would prefer to start work at 2 or 3pm only I can live with our regular working hours from 9am to 6pm.
My boss allows some flexibility and usually I arrive between 9:30 to 9:45 only - but I would consider anything later than 10am that as “coltish” (?) / inappropiate, even though there is usually no requirement for me to be at the office from 9 to 6.
I have however the freedom to do some private things during working hours, say like going to to the bank. As well I am flexible in regards to my lunch break (as to when and how long) and should I have a good reason to come late or go early on occasion I will just ask and it’s certain that he will grant my request as long as it does not interfere with the work or schedules.
I do however stay late nearly every day; most of my colleagues leave at 6pm sharp, in particular those that have family, including my boss, while I usually stay until around 8pm (or when we are in the midst of a project as long as required).
Anyhow, way better than starting work at 8am sharp as this is common in Germany.
If I were you, I’d be very tempted to quit. But, I probably wouldn’t. However, I wouldn’t do any more overtime at all. And I would wait anxiously for the next time they needed something done urgently, just so that I could say at “quitting time” that I am going home… after all, they don’t care what time I quit.
[quote]My immediate boss said that it is company policy and that they don’t care when you leave, only when you arrive.
Would you quit?[/quote]
Obviously they should have, if at all, deducted 0.5 hours only but quitting for that only?
It would depend on many other things, see wolf’s last reply.
If the overtime is unpaid, and if the boss is treating you differently (read: worse) than the local employees just because you’re not Taiwanese, I’d start by only working the hours that I’m paid, and use the extra time to find another job.
My second manager at Boeing pulled crap like that (diverting work away from me and another guy because we were on contract instead of permanent); she threw a screaming tantrum when I told her I was resigning to go to work for the Evil Empire. Served her right. (She managed to destroy the whole project over the next two years; I heard she got a promotion out of it. Boeing, rewarding incompetence. . . .)
Simply put, don’t work any more overtime anymore at this company!
I had a different experience of being unrewarded for my labor at a Taiwanese company a couple of years ago. The accountant responsible for paying salaries had the most outrageous method of rounding hours worked to the nearest half hour. If I worked, say 4hrs and 25 min, she rounded it up to 4 and half hours. However, 4 hrs 24 minutes was rounded down to four hours. This was a daily calculation, not monthly. As I was not informed of this policy, and never bothered to compare how much money I received with my hours hours worked until after having worked there for several months, I lost a lot of money.
When I finally confronted the accountant, she retorted that if I wanted to be paid for every minute, I would have to work every single minute. I retaliated by saying that I would just leave exactly on the hour or half hour, even if they needed me to stay fifteen minutes longer to meet a deadline, because I wouldn’t be paid for my work. Her counter: how could I be so stingy? At this point my blood was boiling, but I decided to bite my tongue before I said something I would later regret. But from that day on, I always punched out on the hour. And I made up for my lost income by working on private projects, such as writing essays for my grad school applications.
This sort of stuff is typical in Taiwan. Most of my local friends, and some of my foreign friends, get docked for being late but are not compensated for staying overtime.
You can find places that will treat you the way you hope to be treated. You have to be really excellent, really valuable to the organization, and you have to be able to judge the character of the person who wants to hire you with some accuracy.
Good luck.
Hi bababa,
Unless you really like your job you should think about leaving. Who knows what other land mines are along the way. It is unfortunate that the folks you work for do not appreciate people taking responsibility and initiative. Unfortunately this kind of behavior is more typical here than in the West. Hope you have better luck with your next job.
At the end of the day this is a company rule. It was probably set up because in a number of functions eg customer interaction, support staff
etc. it is important that people arrive on time so that customers can communicate with them, they can provide the support to other staff who are in on time. There may be other people where the rule does not have much logic, but then the company would have to produce a different set of standards for different employees, people would complain about this too.
My company operates flexy time so you can come in & leave within a range of times to suit your personal circumstances. I think its 8a.m. to 9a.m. in the morning. We dont dock pay for late arrival directly, but if this was routine it would be reflected in an annual appraisal which could result in a lower pay rise.
Wether you stop doing the extra work to do a good job depends on wether you see this as just a stop gap job or you are wanting to make a career out of it. If just a job then dont go the extra mile. If you want to advance within the company , then its worth putting in the extra effort. Also if just doing a good job gives you greater personal satisfaction then its worth it for the satisfaction. Thats provided the extra effort really is delivering a significantly better result.
Personal motivation tends to come from things like doing a good job, promotion opportunities etc. Demotivation on the other hand (as you have just experienced ) comes from factors such as company bureacracy, poor management etc. Its the same in all companies.
Should you quit ? If you have a significantly better career opportunity to go to then you should irrespective of the incident you mention. If you dont then dont.
Do what is best for you . To quit on the basis of “that will show them” is meaningless. You wont be missed in this or any company. Any employee even senior ones, when they quit leave a small ripple on the company pond which dissappears & is foregotten very fast.
Maybe you shouldn’t try to change things here. Become a clock puncher like everyone else. Try not to make work the center of your life. I mean don’t put so much of yourself into it. Just do a good job and GET TO WORK ON TIME OR 5 MINUTES EARLY! Then leave exactly on time or close to it after you finished everything that other people are waiting on that day.
Maybe they think that you Westerners think you are above the system by arriving late. You must show reverence and respect for the company by showing up on time. If that is what they want and they don’t care about overtime then leave on time and enjoy your life more.
This is exactly right. You could be eating your breakfast, polishing your shoes or posting on forumosa, just as long as you’re riding that desk on time. To do otherwise will be perceived as anything from lack of commitment to the company to downright dissent depending on who you work for. Like it or lump it, it’s part of the corporate culture here.
CK
A lot of westerners go through this in Taiwan. I went through the same things that you went through.
I put in a lot of overtime and a lot of myself into the first company I worked for in Taiwan. I felt I really made an impact on their business. At the end of the year when they didn’t seem to appreciate as much as I expected them to (too small of a raise and not allowed to transfer to another department), I left on time from then on as long as I had done all of the work that day that they needed or that I promised to do.
Don’t expect too much and you won’t be disappointed.