I don’t think many Europeans give a shit until it’s mentioned by an American. After all, it is usually only Americans like TC who bring this kind of subject up, right? Because Europeans certainly don’t seem to voluntarily start topics like this.[/quote]DM -
Beg pardon?
Just remember Dear Friend…you’re speaking English…not German.
Even now Miss Loretta has a thinly disguised USA bashing thread up and running. And it was I that posted this thread…fair & balanced you know.
And I only rarely mention the abomination of Lucas electrical components in the British cars I’ve owned. I allow that memory to be overshadowed by the thoughts of the beautiful 1968 BSA Thunderbolt I had for 2 happy years.
Seriously, if you need some penis enlargement pills, I could forward some of the spam I get. Just let me know. Is this “little” problem interfering with how well you enjoy life? Tsk tsk…
And what has that got to do with America? Anything?
No, didn’t think so.
The much repeated phrase that “USA saved Europe” is very much untrue, and completely dismissive of the intense war that actually occurred far from the USA and for years without USA involvement. Russia saved Europe, so did the UK, so did France and the other allies… for any country to claim that it is more of a benefactor than the others is untrue and shows an emotionally disturbing lack of empathy. I would reckon that historically only the poor, suppressed Russian civilians and soldiers could claim to have saved anyone
I’m not loretta.
Kind of like a wide-mouthed frog crossed with a narrow-minded American.
Oh, I enjoy life perfectly well, thank you very much. I drop in here every so often to see how those stuck in a little office at the AIT with nothing to do are doing. Stuck within those four walls must make you very dillusional.
Seriously, if you need some penis enlargement pills, I could forward some of the spam I get. Just let me know. Is this “little” problem interfering with how well you enjoy life? Tsk tsk…[/quote]
He/she probably meant ‘bloviating’, Fred, as in ‘I took too many penis enlargement pills and now I’m bloviating!’
The US saved Europe from itself, Germany and Russia. Now, perhaps, we should let the Islamofascists have you. I mean how many more times do we have to save you?
but not as much as the US did…
Forget the facts! We need emphathy! Belgium’s effort was just as important! We don’t want to hurt people’s feelings on this forum!
reckon?
Are you sure?
Well, at least something about me is wide… if you get my drift…
Just making do, getting by with what the Good Lord gave you, eh?
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]I have always liked Finland a great amount. They did quite well in WWII. Their ferocious fight was mostly overlooked in the history books.
And these damned flashing banner ads are distracting![/quote]
I’ve always admired the Italians for their unswerving loyalty, and glorious ancient military honor, the Romanians for their dedication and precision in battle, and the Greeks for their fervor equal in lovemaking and war. The Swiss should be commended for their clear and unbending neutrality. While I’m at it, the French for their uncompromised notions of liberte et fraternite which they extended to all their citizens, and their uncompromising will to not compromise and collaborate with the enemy. With such allies, who needs enemies… um. yeah.
The U.S. played a most pivotal role in Europe during the Cold War and got into position for that already during WWII. Probably not intentionally, but that’s besides the point as Fred referred to WWII here.
With regard to that, this the whole “the U.S. saved Europe from Germany and made VE Day happen” … well, let’s cut you some slack and say that if your ex Secretary of Defense got his knowledge of history mainly from schlock novels, then why should you do any better? You only majored in the subject, right? You never claimed you actually learned anything about it. Fair enough.
Back to WWII - even had Hitler not declared war on the U.S. and America thus staying out of the war, the Soviet Union had weathered the worst by late 1942 (at last) and that was pretty much it for the Wehrmacht. The drive to the Caucasus in '42 was the last gamble, Kursk in '43 was a last throe and was as convincing a show as the Ardennenoffensive of '44. Not that UK and US bombings didn’t help since 1943 or that D-Day didn’t shorten the War by a year at least. But America saving Europe from Nazi Germany? Sorry Fred, just a nomination in that regard, but the award goes to the Soviet Union …
… to be thwarted then by the U.S. during the Cold War to exploit that victory and overrun Europe proper. But that’s a different award altogether.
I can name two countries who dared declare war on Germany when it was at its strongest. France and England. And England could have made a very cozy peace in 1940 without any loss of territory … and yet decided to not throw the towl yet.
Pretty much anyone else just skulked and hoped the storm will just pass by. Not that I want to blame the U.S. for doing so, pretty reasonable policy. But later on prancing around acting as if it had been any different is just plain cheap as Dangermouse already pointed out.
So next time you need to rely on deeds of generations past to prop up your “arguments” about current affairs Fred focus on the Cold War instead. Or maybe just refer to the PTO if you still need the WWII glamour. The Cold War was America’s finest hour. The “America jumped to its feet and was on the forefront defeating Nazi Germany” though is mostly a myth.
Another suggestion would be to stop resting on your laurels altogether and realizing you wear them in the wrong place today. But this may be asked a bit much of you.
Yes - sneaky bastards … they showed everyone good.
First survive the Soviet Juggernaut all on its own, then rebuff Hitler when told to drive all the way into Leningrad and then end up as the only Nazi Ally not absorbed into the Warshaw Pact.
It is more the political skill I admire there than just how they waged their defensive war.
My goodness you are SLOW today. I, er, was posting mostly to rattle Dangermouse’s chain. It apparently succeeded not only in raising his frothy rejoinder but also in confusing you. I guess I will consider that I have killed two birds with one feather.
I don’t think any one country was responsible for the victory in WW2. But the absence of any one of these countries from the Allies, may have meant defeat.
Peace between Germany and the Britain even if it happened would not last. Hitler was too ambitous, and Churchill understood this.
Don’t really know why Roosevelt held off and did not get involved until the day after Pearl harbor, but I assume that the USA did not see the need to get involved in other parts of the world, but this may have changed when they realised that two large oceans on either side of the USA, did not protect them
This then may have led to foreign policy after WW2, to get involved as much as possible in different parts of the world. Eventhough war maybe good for the military industrial complex, trade and commerce makes more sense and money.
Cooperation (something that seems to be lacking nowadays) was also prevalent during the Cold War. Eventhough the USA assured that MAD could happen, it was the cooperation with the other countries through NATO (even after De Gaulle got pissy and pulled France out) that enabled them to counter the USSR.
Pity we do not have this cooperation now to face current problems, instead of using every problem to get a dig in or to further hardened stances
My goodness you are SLOW today. I, er, was posting mostly to rattle Dangermouse’s chain. It apparently succeeded not only in raising his frothy rejoinder but also in confusing you. I guess I will consider that I have killed two birds with one feather.[/quote]
Ah! The good old I-did-not-say-something-stupid-it-was-just-a-joke-Nuremberg-defense. Now I also get why you liked Rummy’s sense of humour so much. :bravo:
It would sound a lot more credible if you would not parade your limping WWII / Bush administration analogies around on pretty much every thread when you run out of arguments.
Btw, when it comes to history, what school did your curriculum follow more? Traditional Marvel or more the New Ultimates?
Lack of public support. WWI was supposed to be the war to end all wars. Which was an idea burried when the Treaty of Versailles was drafted, which pretty much set the stage for the sequel known as WWII.
America was disappointed by the revangist attitudes of its former Allies and asked the question “and these are the people we supported”? Hence the reluctance to back them up again in 1939 and rather stay out of this European mess.
And as said, can’t really blame the U.S. public for it. “Why rushing in to sort the Europeans out? They apparently want to fight each other … whatever, let them have it, glad none of them bothers to declare war on us (well till 1941 at least).”
And then Stalin was not really viewed as the nice uncle with the funny mustach just smoking a pipe either.
Or at least that’s what some history books claim … you may get a different version from Rumsfeld though.
“No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.”
General Pattan
Of course Stalin’s thinking was a bit different… you win a war by allowing the other guy to run out of bullets by throwing your countrymen in front of his gun
[quote=“TNT”][“No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.”
General Patton
Of course Stalin’s thinking was a bit different… you win a war by allowing the other guy to run out of bullets by throwing your countrymen in front of his gun[/quote]
Well, his actual quote was: “One death is a tragedy. One million are a statistc.”
What you say about the mindlesss human wave assaults holds true mostly only for the period of 1941/42 though as far as I know, when all the Russian had around were completely untrained conscripts.
