Unhappy with moderation

Dragonbones: So he’s allowed to insult me in a post and basically refuse to actually engage in an intellectual discussion, and I’m not allowed to call him on that? That’s utter crap. Modify his post too then or you show me how the words I used were not accurate. I’ll post a dictionary definition if you’re so unsure. I’d also like to see some of the OPs and long term posters who regularly call people all sorts of names in threads get censored (I’ve been insulted by at least two other people recently – divea and sandman). There is such selective moderation at this site it is ridiculous.

Thank you for your feedback.

The rules clearly state that insults are not allowed, and that posters should discuss the message rather than the messenger. The moderators have to draw a line somewhere. “You think too much” (or too little) is pretty mild stuff. Calling other posters insulting names for “not engaging in an intellectual discussion” to your satisfaction is clearly rude, insulting and unacceptable. As moderator I made the call to draw the line between those two. That’s my job as moderator. It’s also my job to remind you of the rules. We ask that you abide by not only the letter of the rules but also the spirit, which is summarized at the very top. [quote]Treat people with respect. Don’t be rude or bigoted. Discuss the message, not the messenger.[/quote]

If you are referring to some other insult by the person in question, you are welcome to hit the [!] icon to report that, and bring it to the attention of the moderators and admin.

Your post was edited to remove the insult and adjacent rudeness, and the remainder of your comments could stand (as opposed to having the whole post sent to Flames).

If you have complaints about insults by other posters, you are welcome to hit the [!] icon to report those, and bring them to the attention of the moderators of those forums. If you have a complaint about lack of consistency in the moderation, you are quite welcome to post the details here for Maoman’s attention. I recommend that you provide actual quotes, along with links to the posts in question.

maoman:

Taken from this thread: [url]What would you do with 500,000NT? - #58 by GuyInTaiwan

My issues are with the following (underlined):

I wrote the following (which was removed):

  1. You don’t think enough… I’m not sure why the first part I’ve underlined in cfimages’ post was not modified or removed then.

  2. You know sod all about what you’re talking about… I’m not sure why the second part I’ve underlined in cfimages’ post was not modified or removed then.

  3. You’re a bigot. (Willing to accept that one, though I’ll be on the lookout for anyone calling me a bigot in the future, which I believe has happened before.)

Also, of late, there have been a number of posters, including one moderator, who have openly insulted me. I’m generally against censoring people (including cfimages above), but I want to know if I should be hitting the alert button for some consistency from now on.

Interestingly, taken from this thread:

[url]Merkel Says German Multi-cultural Society Has Failed - #10 by cfimages

(Colour change mine.)

[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]Interestingly, taken from this thread:

[url]Merkel Says German Multi-cultural Society Has Failed - #10 by cfimages

(Colour change mine.)[/quote]
He never called you a bigot, you idiot. If I said “I don’t know if Guy in Taiwan has seven nipples” would you try to accuse me of saying you’ve got seven nipples?

Ok, my quick judgment:

  1. You think too much is not an insult.
  2. You’re either A) or B) (with B being an insulting term): Probably objectionable, and definitely skating on thin ice, but I’ll leave it up to the moderator of the forum.
  3. You’re B) (with B being an insulting term): Definitely objectionable.

Next!

Guy in Taiwan,
Don’t let the buggers get you down.
I’ve been meaning to send you a Private Message these past weeks just to say how much I have enjoyed your posts, but didn’t get around to it - I may have been distracted by a bottle or the need to discipline one of my servants. Anyway, just thought I would post my appreciation here.

Your posts are great fun - plenty of meat to them and sometimes deliciously over the top. They’re well written, provocative and colourful. And eccentric, as you seem to be (which in my book is a good thing). Some posters get upset at your bluntly expressed proto-fascist libertarian views (yeah, I know that’s a contradiction), your clash of civilizations stuff. your evolutionary biology reductionism of the human condition and associated crude references to men and women um… doing it… so to speak. Um, where was I? Lost my train of thought.

Forumosa would be a poorer place if you were not posting. Carry on my good man.

John

[quote=“maoman”]Ok, my quick judgment:

  1. You think too much is not an insult.
  2. You’re either A) or B) (with B being an insulting term): Probably objectionable, and definitely skating on thin ice, but I’ll leave it up to the moderator of the forum.
  3. You’re B) (with B being an insulting term): Definitely objectionable.

Next![/quote]

I agree that “You think too much” is not an insult. I also don’t think “you don’t think enough” is either. I’m merely asking for consistency. Likewise with my second objection.

Based upon your third point, sandman just insulted me, and I have been insulted several times recently by one of the moderators, I believe. My point is not to censor sandman or anyone else. I actually don’t like censorship and I like sandman’s style, even when I’m on the receiving end of it. I just want(ed) some consistency.

almas: Thanks. We eccentric Antipodeans need to stick together.

For God’s sake, Guy, chill out. My only criticism of you is that you take things too seriously.

If Almas John likes you, then that’s worth being disliked by ten peanut-brains, isn’t it? He weighs more than ten average forumosans, and drinks more too. So your detractors are outnumbered, outweighed, outgunned, probably outraged, and possibly outwitted too. Who cares? Just keep on posting the tripe, and don’t let the bastards get you down.

Guy, if I’ve said anything that offends you, then please accept my apologies. That was never my intention - I’m basically a hippy pacifist who gets along with everyone.

I’ve been posting from my phone all day so can’t see any of the underlines or emphasized colors etc in your post. I will take a look later tonight or tomorrow from a computer.

Peace.

People on this forum are too easily butthurt.

If I need to say something that’ll get me banned, I’ll fuckin say it, I’ll serve a two week ban to get my point across, fuckin rights! (Lettuce be reality, how hard do I sound right now?)

I understand the tight rules around here:

-Lean left politically.
-Be willing to care for street animals.
-DO NOT make any grammar or spelling mistakes or the legions of bushibanners up in this set will string you up by your nut sack.
-Some Mods are thinner skinned than others, so do not engage them, unless you are feeling particularly randy.
-All comments on TW must be culturally sensitive, unless of course they are overtly insensitive.
-Fuckin with people whose usernames are colored is risky. They are like the card carrying CCP members of Forumosa, in good with Chairman Mao and wielding influence in dispute.

Guy in Taiwan and Dragonbones, you both seem above this petty BS, call each other a prick and move on with it. Or perhaps we could take a cue from Sandman and just speak heathen gibberish that no can decipher.

[quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“Deuce Dropper”]People on this forum are too easily butthurt.

If I need to say something that’ll get me banned, I’ll fuckin say it, I’ll serve a two week ban to get my point across, fuckin rights! (Lettuce be reality, how hard do I sound right now?)

I understand the tight rules around here:

-Lean left politically.
-Be willing to care for street animals.
-DO NOT make any grammar or spelling mistakes or the legions of bushibanners up in this set will string you up by your nut sack.
[color=#FF0040]-Some Mods are thinner skinned than others, so do not engage them, unless you are feeling particularly randy.[/color]
-All comments on TW must be culturally sensitive, unless of course they are overtly insensitive.
[color=#FF0040]-Fuckin with people whose usernames are colored is risky. They are like the card carrying CCP members of Forumosa, in good with Chairman Mao and wielding influence in dispute.[/color]
[/quote]

Not me! Go for it. I’ll temp us both and have at ye![/quote]
That’s what I do if it goes OT or something, but some people still bitch about getting temped even if you temp yourself along with them.

Ah, well…

Personally, I think some people need to cowboy up a little bit and stop being so sensitive.

Don’t like the moderators or the long-term posters? Ok, spend your time elsewhere. It’s their sandbox… If you don’t like it, take your toys and go home.

[quote=“Lo Pan”]Personally, I think some people need to cowboy up a little bit and stop being so sensitive.

Don’t like the moderators or the long-term posters? Ok, spend your time elsewhere. It’s their sandbox… If you don’t like it, take your toys and go home.[/quote]

Yep, but some people haven’t been here long and don’t understand the humor of the long timers have on this site. Just look at the inscription date on the posters on this thread. Might think you are posting as a foreigner but you are not anymore :wink: Been here soooo loooong. Married, kids, car and bike accidents,same school for sooo looong, bored of it, need a new life, already posted about this on forumosa, sooo borrred, been to Carnagies 250 times and still post about it in the restaurant section. The list goes on and on. There are many reason to not like us ( been here for 8 years). Impatience is not the way to go ( in my opinion) if you want to keep this site alive.

New comers to this site are sensitive because they don’t know much about Taiwan. When a MOD temps them for saying stuff about Taiwan ( in their view) that is not consistent with our experiences here doesn’t help them at all. Just makes them feel like they have no chances here. There is no teaching behind that. No empathy, no sharing besides you are wrong and you are tempted.

MY :2cents:

That thread was between old timers but some other people read you as well. :wink:

I understand and agree with what you’re saying, but from the perspective of the people who have been here for a while, what do the newbies contribute? I’m not here to provide a public service for people who just wander in expecting to be taken care of. This is a community, not always a very nice one, and there is plenty of scope for improvement in the way we treat people, but the long-termers are the core of the community. Whatever our weaknesses and failings, we are what we are, and it’s not productive to lecture about what we should be doing to better serve a bunch of complete strangers who are mostly just passing through. Like it or not, newbs have to play by the rules - even if many of them are unwritten or capricious.

There is also an argument that forumosa doesn’t have to be what it is. Change is possible, but would require a lot of effort from the powers-that-be. If they made that effort, what would be the benefit to them? What would the newbies give them in return?

I’ve had plenty of long conversations with Maoman about transforming forumosa into this, that, or the other. But every proposal involves exerting massive effort, spending money, and jeapordising the existing community. Without a very clear reason for doing so, what would be the point? We all have lives to live, and bills to pay. Forumosa is a part of that, and you would need a damn good reason to impact the living and paying of bills.

Anyone who is not happy with the way forumosa is has three options:

  • go somewhere else
  • suck it up
  • be the change, by sticking around and setting a good example

Obviously, the feral mutt who started this thread is in a different category and this comment is not a response to his complaint.

Obviously, feral mutt is a joke about straydog, who started a previous thread, and not GIT, who started this one.

I don’t think that it’s really a case of newbies versus old timers; in any case GIT and stray dog don’t come across to me as newbies in any shape or form. Tomhill once described the communication problems inherrent in online posting much better than I can, but I can’t find his post. We all just have to be extra careful with anything that could be construed as personal abuse.

I would say it’s pretty obvious that over the past few months, for whatever reason, the moderating here has got slightly heavier. This may not be a bad thing, it may even be a random thing, but it is a thing. It also seems to be the case that a lot of posters are increasingly finding themselves temped when previously a thread would be allowed to “organically evolve” somewhat more. And this isn’t just a newbie thing…myself and HGC, two of the oldest timers here, have both spoken up about this in recent weeks. Is there some kind of regular meeting of the mods, or communication of some sort, where policy on temping is discussed?

When threads got split in the past they used to have a note from moderator about where they were split from. That certainly helped to reduce confusion; particularly when, as the bear has noted, off-topic discussions in threads seem to get split off or temped much faster these days than in the past. I don’t want to increase the workload of the mods, who are of course working gratis, but it helped to know where supposedly new threads had come from.

Hello Loretta,
Quote"I understand and agree with what you’re saying, but from the perspective of the people who have been here for a while, what do the newbies contribute? I’m not here to provide a public service for people who just wander in expecting to be taken care of. This is a community, not always a very nice one, and there is plenty of scope for improvement in the way we treat people, but the long-termers are the core of the community."Quote

When I got on Forumosa, Some of the old timers/mods like Mjb and Redwagon took good care of us in the car and motorcycle section. We actually became friend in real life. Because of their example, I also try to help new comers. Some of them also became friends with. Hopefully, one day they will take over and keep expanding the community. After all this is a web based business. If you are not expanding, the revenues are not growing hence the " spending money" part that you mentioned in your post.

I am 100% with you that the rules apply to everyone. But being tempted because of a lack of patience??? 98% of all the questions asked in the car and motorcycle section have been asked and answered before. For some new comers, it would be hard to go threw thread that are 50 pages long just to get the answer that they are looking for. Would it be not more polite to just 1- pass on the question. 2- Answer the question. 3- Pull the post related to the question. Instead of answering 1- Search is your friend. 2- Turning the question into a newbee joke. 3- showing impatience.

Anyway, I am no angel myself. I get tempted once in a while. Also got suspended because of arguments.
Maybe I am just getting old and have been visited by the spirit of mother Teresa :wink:

After all, it’s the internet

I do think we mostly try to do that, but maybe sometimes the reference isn’t seen. Sometimes the reference is in the last post after the split and gets lost as posts accrue after that. I try to post the reference in the OP, but that may also not be seen by posters already in the thread.

Also, remember that sometimes a thread becomes too long and has two or three topics being discussed simultaneously. Case in point was the nuclear accident/Japanese Tsunami thread that eventually ran to near a 100 pages and had three separate discussions going on. It makes it difficult for archiving and searches, let alone a new poster who comes along and see 100 pages thinking, “Whoa! I’m not reading all that!” and then goes on about something totally OT in his/her post.

And temping OT posts isn’t an insult. Conversations can continue in temp, and if the conversation is OT but deemed good enough for it’s own thread we just split it off. But have a look at temp. Most of the discussions there are inside jokes and about licking balls or whatnot.

Point is, we try to serve the community of Forumosa. We try to make as many of you as possible happy as we can, but sadly you can’t please all the people all of the time.

As to old timers etc. There are/were several posters that took me a long time to decipher. I could have left in a huff after I first joined, but I stuck around and got to know the people who regularly post here. It’s like life, in a way. You don’t walk into a party where you know no one and start having at it without getting to know the people a little first.

Also, personally I think the Mods take a lot of crap for no real payback. One example that springs to mind is this whole “Higher Standard” thing. It gets thrown in your face everytime you try to engage with a poster as a normal poster, but we’re not allowed to do that because we’re mods and if we speak our mind like everyone else does we get accused of ganging up on people, abusing our powers etc etc. I’ve even seen Divea accused of this several times since she’s left the moderation team.
As a result I almost never really speak my mind anymore. I wanted to post several things in the last week alone where I stopped myself, lest I be branded for abusing my powers or some such. The only reason I even do it is because I love this site and this community and I hope that the small part I play in it as a mod makes it a better place for everyone.

What I’m saying is, give the guys a bit of slack. If you really feel hard done by, start a thread like this one, or better yet, pm the mod in question.