Universal Basic Income?

I don’t doubt a UBI will happen in the near future. It’s almost inevitable at this point.

My personal opinion is it’s a doomed and costly socialist pipe dream. Ultimately it will lead to hyperinflation.

If anyone believes a UBI will free downtrodden masses to release their hidden talents, I feel sorry for you.

I don’t see how it could not. If everyone has $1200, then $1200 is worth zero.

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Not everyone will have it, because – trust me – it won’t actually be universal, no matter what name they give it.

Also, for some people who theoretically have the full benefit, a portion will be garnished by court order before they even have time to have it stolen by some crackhead friend or relative or embezzled in some Madoff or Ponzi or whatever scheme.

No jurisdiction will give it to everyone who shows up, but the bar will be set at different heights in different places, sometimes with elaborate hoops to jump through that are more difficult for the people who need it more. Some will still end up begging on the street, with handwritten signs explaining (truly or falsely) why they don’t qualify for the “universal” income or why it isn’t enough to meet their basic needs.

That doesn’t mean there necessarily won’t be a net benefit to society at the end of the day, but if there is, it won’t be with the precision of a magic bullet. :2cents:

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UBI is a possible solution to economic inequality.

I need to learn more about UBI then. I dismissed it since a social safety in terms of cash payments should be temporary and needs based, not necessarily universal.

But the fact is most people are not on welfare for more than 6 months to a year and direct cash payments only make up something like 1%. Food stamps 15%, if you add Socialism Security it’s goes up to like 40% of the population. So I suppose if it’s needs based and a robust screening process than it’s no different than any other welfare program.

The idea is to replace all welfare programs plus minus all relevant administrative costs involved.

The principle is human dignity.

Money is just a number by the way.

South Korea is trying out UBI in the Gyeonggi province

220 isn’t enough to derive a conclusion. UBI is supposed to be enough to survive.

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At $430 USD per year, it seems more like an economic stimulus.

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Why do so many people seem to see UBI as some kind of welfare? Or even “socialist”?

As far as I can tell, it’s simply one possible idea how to solve the problem that due to automation etc. there will be not enough work/jobs any more. If there are only jobs for a small part of the population, how does the rest earn the money they need for life?

The centuries old system of “you get paid for work” works only as long as there is enough paid work for most people. Or am I missing something, how this system can be sustained regardless of availability of paid work? Or… Is automation not happening and this is not a concern?

See also my musings on this from a while ago. I’m not against this system, I just don’t see it viable for the near future (thanks to @Dr_Milker for the correction)

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In the bear future, there will be free salmon for everyone.

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Where do you think the money for the “UBI” will come from?

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To quote my old post:

One obvious solution to me is that the people (who are the nation!) simply decide to tax the companies for the opportunity to do business in their nation, and then share the tax revenue amongst each other. Bang! Universal basic income.

You’ve answered your own question!

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Not sure what you mean. I guess we have different understandings of these terms, and it is not unlikely that mine is wrong. I’m not an expert for this topic, and would be happy to hear more knowledgeable people’s ideas.

So, apart from naming or labeling, what’s a better idea for an automated future where not enough paid jobs are available that everyone can earn their living by working? Or is this not going to happen?

Without government interference it’s not going to happen. Once the supply of jobs decreases, the supply of available labor increases leading to a decrease in cost of labor until eventually it becomes more cost effective to use labor rather than machinery.

It’s only when you have outside interference artificially keeping the cost of labor high that automation becomes a cheaper alternative.

Tax loopholes, tax loopholes, tax loopholes. Amazon was one of the highest grossing U.S. companies last year, guess how much in taxes the company paid. If they go automated, their employees aren’t paying taxes either.

Ah good, then nothing to worry about. The market will fix itself :slight_smile:

Unfortunately it won’t as the government will insist on interfering.

Because it’s both and worse. Where do you think the money to pay for a UBI comes from? There’s only two ways. Someone is going to pay more taxes, or the government will create more money from nothing. Either way there’ll be a group that ends up paying for it all.

If taxes are raised to pay for it. It will be middle/high income earners who foot the bill. If corporate taxes are raised, those costs will be passed on to consumers by way of higher prices.

If the government creates new money it’ll be the savers and investors who pay for it.

In addition to the above it will make the populace entirely dependent on the government. Think 1984.

There’s literally no way a global UBI ends well.

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