Apparently it is illegal in the States to sell unpastuerised milk or cheese made with it.
I am told the EU is trying to foist this nonsense on Europe. Obviously it goes without saying the French will ignore it and good on them.
I grew up surrounded by farms and regularly drank fresh milk straight out of the cow. Let me rephrase that. It was squirted into a bucket first. No Friesian bukkake for me. Oh no. Er, sorry, I digress.
Anyway. I have never heard of anyone ever suffering an illness from drinking fresh cow’s milk. But the FDA website (linked from the story) says hundreds of Americans died or got sick or something in 2001 from drinking unpastuerised milk.
I find this totally bizarre. Anyone who’s had brie or camambert made from unpastuerised milk, or even just drunk the stuff, knows it tastes far better.
They’re talking about salmonella. That’s not naturally present in cows milk. If it’s in food it’s a process issue - you can’t bloody ban natural food because the process of getting it to market is fucked up.
I mean are we going to ban raw oysters and mussels because every so often someone gets a bad tummy? Wouldn’t it be better to try and improve general hygeine in the food industry. Naw. Far too difficult. (They’ll not ban cars because of road accidents, of course.)
They’ll prise that raw oyster on the half-shell from my cold, dead, hands. Bloody bureaucrats. Where’s Charlton Heston when you need him?
[quote=“hexuan”]Apparently it is illegal in the States to sell unpastuerised milk or cheese made with it.
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They’re talking about salmonella. That’s not naturally present in cows milk. If it’s in food it’s a process issue - you can’t bloody ban natural food because the process of getting it to market is fucked up.[/quote]
But we can’t confidently claim that the source of the raw milk is “natural” in this day and age of steroids, chemicals, fertilizers, and genetic engineering, anyway.
I don’t take issue with the claim that hundreds of people have gotten sick from consuming raw milk products. What bothers me is that in the states that ban any kind of sale of raw milk, the choice about which type of milk to consume is taken away.[/quote]
I’m with Hex on this. Most of my friends, and myself to a lesser extent, grew up on milk fresh from the cow. That shit is great. Never got salmonella, never got any sicknesses that could conceivably have come from the milk. Sounds to me like the dairy industry getting greedy.
The US dairy industry and all those involved have got muscles in Washington DC. Why do you think Americans are brainwashed into thinking that milk is great for you and IT IS THE ONLY GOOD SOURCE OF CALCIUM IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD. Or you are bombarded with “Don’t Forget the Milk” signs in every supermarket dairy case? There’s money and careers to be made in making and selling milk and all that pasteurization equipment.
Charlton Heston ain’t on your side on this one. Increasingly food safety is being used as a way to circumvent penalty clauses in international trade agreements. For instance, Russian chicken inspectors are in Arkansas now (it’s a Russian military rank, even) and a dust-up may be brewing. No kidding. Maybe the 101st Airborne will have to brush up on their chicken production skills; oh well, can’t make an omelette without…wait.
Obviously the EU is worried about the costs involved in meeting both local and international standards. I doubt that Europe has to worry about domestic consumption of milk, though; more likely it’s concerned about export products.
Yeah, I grew up on raw milk, too. In the US. You can buy it most anywhere in the interior - wherever dairy cattle exist - it’s not pasteurized. It’s not on sale in the supermarket, though. You find a neighbor with cattle, ask to buy unprocessed milk, buy a couple/three glass gallon jars, keep them clean, away you go. Cheese, butter, butter milk, skim milk with flavor, whole milk but you got to shake the jar first to mix well. Skimming cream off the top of raw whole milk that’s sat long enough to separate, that’s why coffee was made.
And pasteurization won’t take away any hormones, etc. It just kills bacteria - and flavor.
Flicka’s right, the USDA (Dept of Agriculture) is enormously powerful in the US. This is bigger than the USDA, though.
Like aprimo said, don’t let them take away your domestic choice.
Interesting point. Bloody hell. I want my brie made with unpasteurised milk. Godammit Irish farmers have been drinking milk straight out of cows for hundreds of years. I’m sure it’s the same in America and elsewhere.
The FDA should go and have a look at the huge strong healthy people who for generations have grown up on home made dairy products. Just cause some fag-assed little accountants in the cities can’t handle a fuckin glass of milk we all have to suffer? Fuckem. These limp-wristed wimps in the cities need a good fuckin’ feed of proper food. I suppose they’re going to ban food altogether and we’ll just eat pills like on star trek. :fume:
Then why not ban the sale of all forms of raw meat, or eggs perhaps? You can get sick off those too. Unfortunately I don’t have your faith in their motives - I doubt they’re as pure as that. And since when’s the government given a shit about protecting health above other options? Why are cigarettes, proven health risks, still for sale? What about that liverkiller alcohol?
Then why not ban the sale of all forms of raw meat, or eggs perhaps? You can get sick off those too. Unfortunately I don’t have your faith in their motives - I doubt they’re as pure as that. And since when’s the government given a shit about protecting health above other options? Why are cigarettes, proven health risks, still for sale? What about that liverkiller alcohol?[/quote]
People typically cook eggs and meat before eating them. In the U.S., ealth inspectors regulate restaurants to cook eggs thoroughly, and restaurants often put disclaimers on their menus about rare steaks.
People usually drink milk without further cooking it. It appears as an ingredient in cakes and the like, but when was the last time you saw a recipe for your morning cornflakes that went, “put cereal in bowl, add milk to cover, bake at 350 deg.F for 20-25 minutes or microwave on high for 2 minutes”?
I’ve eaten stuff with raw eggs in it, but only when I’ve made it myself and had fresh, clean-looking eggs. Still, I know that I am taking an estimated 1:10,000 risk of getting food poisoning, and a smaller risk that it might be that vicious strain of E.coli that causes permanent kidney damage in many victims and has a nasty tendency to kill the more at-risk folks (elderly, children, cancer and AIDS patients, and so on).
BTW, last time I looked, you could still get unpasteurized milk in some higher-end supermarkets. Peninsula Farms is famous on the west coast for its chocolate milk (unpasteurized). It is uncommon and is clearly labeled.
[quote=“MaPoSquid”]People typically cook eggs and meat before eating them. In the U.S., ealth inspectors regulate restaurants to cook eggs thoroughly, and restaurants often put disclaimers on their menus about rare steaks.
People usually drink milk without further cooking it. It appears as an ingredient in cakes and the like, but when was the last time you saw a recipe for your morning cornflakes that went, “put cereal in bowl, add milk to cover, bake at 350 deg.F for 20-25 minutes or microwave on high for 2 minutes”?[/quote]
True, but if they’re banning straight milk on the basis of the fact you might get sick from it, where do we draw the line? Sure, people typically cook meat and eggs, but people also don’t typically get sick from straight milk either.
See, that’s my point too. If they’re going to ban the sale of straight milk on because it might cause an illness, what about all those other foods that have a possibility of causing illnesses.
[quote]Quote:
I’ve eaten stuff with raw eggs in it, but only when I’ve made it myself and had fresh, clean-looking eggs. Still, I know that I am taking an estimated 1:10,000 risk of getting food poisoning, and a smaller risk that it might be that vicious strain of E.coli that causes permanent kidney damage in many victims and has a nasty tendency to kill the more at-risk folks (elderly, children, cancer and AIDS patients, and so on).
See, that’s my point too. If they’re going to ban the sale of straight milk on because it might cause an illness, what about all those other foods that have a possibility of causing illnesses.[/quote]
How do you know the government doesn’t have regulations for different kinds of food? Take a couple examples that you’ve mentioned…for meat, there’s federal meat inspection that includes ante mortem, post mortem, and processing inspections, then there’s grading. And, yea, meat is usually cooked after purchase, where as milk isn’t. For eggs, in N.A. at least, egg shells need to be sanitized to be rid of salmonella, and graded (the grading doesn’t include just the size, but also defects within and outside the eggs).
But they’ve still got the chance you could get sick from them, right? Which is the reason the government appears to be using to ban straight milk. All I’m saying is they either should be honest or consistent, one or the other.
I have eaten rare pork and chicken, including chicken livers here and had no ill after effects. I don’t eat chicken in the UK unless it’s been cremated first. Rare pork? No way. But in Taiwan it’s OK.
There is something seriously wrong with the way food gets to market if people are getting ill from “raw” milk. I mean we have refrigeration. This is not the 19th century.
Why is there salmonella in chickens and eggs? Why are sick animals being pumped full of antibiotics to keep them symptom-free just long enough to get them sold? And then when we buy them we have to cook the shite out of them because we now assume all our food is unclean.
Anyone fancy a steak tartare? With a raw egg yolk on top? A carpaccio of beef? Sorry sir, we can’t serve these ancient traditional dishes any more because our food is unfit for human consumption.
You’ve got to be joking. Given the rampantly unsanitary environment here, and the antibiotic abuse, and all the rest, I don’t touch anything that isn’t well-burned.
[quote]There is something seriously wrong with the way food gets to market if people are getting ill from “raw” milk. I mean we have refrigeration. This is not the 19th century.
Why is there salmonella in chickens and eggs? Why are sick animals being pumped full of antibiotics to keep them symptom-free just long enough to get them sold? And then when we buy them we have to cook the shite out of them because we now assume all our food is unclean.[/quote]
No, this is the 21st century, and we have discovered new things, such as Pasteurization, which I capitalize here in honor of one of the few frogs worthy of it. We have also learned about this nifty thing called “germ theory”, and about the prevention of food poisoning.
Abuse of antibiotics in the barnyard isn’t about keeping sick animals “just healthy enough”, it is about promoting growth so you get more meat in less time. (Similarly, aspirin promotes growth in pigs, so they get a dose in their feed.) The problem is, constant antibiotic use leads to the creation of resistant strains of bugs, so when you bite into that nice rare chicken that you mentioned, you might also be biting into a strain of salmonella that will keep on keepin’ on no matter what you throw at it.
I don’t know whether the Taiwanese dump antibiotics into feed, but the drugs are dirt cheap, so I don’t see why they wouldn’t. Bayer AG has to make a deutschmark – sorry, that’s “euro” now, I guess – somehow.
