Afghanistan
Palin: Surge principles used in Iran need to be applied in Afghanistan.
Biden: Our Commanding General in Afghansitan said surge principles WILL NOT work in Afghanistan. In 3 weeks we spend more money in Iraq than we spent in 7 years in Afghanistan. Need to spend more there for schools, etc.
Palin: Our Commanding General did not say that.
Biden: He did say that.
FactCheck will resolve that one.
Best Quote so Far
Palin [grinning broadly]: “It’s so obvious I’m a Washington outsider, because I just don’t understand how you guys work.”
Amen.
I doubt that. My guess is that he did not say the exact words “surge principles WILL NOT work in Afghanistan”. He probably said something about circumstances being different, and some methods working and some not, and taking the lessons we learned and adapt to the other environment, and blah blah blah.
I guarantee you both sides are going to claim they were right on that one after the debate. And depending on which side a person favors, the person will agree with their side’s interpretation … and will call anyone holding the interpretation of the other side “a liar”.
[quote=“Mother Theresa”]Best Quote so Far
Palin [grinning broadly]: “It’s so obvious I’m a Washington outsider, because I just don’t understand how you guys work.”
Amen.[/quote]
I actually think she’s doing a very good job. Because she’s new, she can get away with that admission and look like the little guy who is there fighting the big baddies to make things better for the other little guy. I think she manages to seem genuine and possionate. Nothing wrong with that. At the same time, Her new little guy immage aslo comes off as fairly nieve when she starts talking about how another republican run is going to be able to fix and ecconomy they didn’t realize was broken until two weeks ago.
VP is heartbeat away from Presidency
Palin: Heaven forbid that would ever happen, would evvvver happen, but if that were to ever happen I would get rid of greed and corruptoin on Wall street, for average working class family, government get out of my way, bolster economy, win the war, etc.
Crappy grabbag answer. By the way, does she consider the $700B bailout “government get out of my way”? Does she believe “government get out of my way” will eliminate greed and corruptoin on wall street?
Weird
Palin: “Now dog garn it Joe,” in big funky drawl.
Palin: Biden, your wife, teacher: her reward is in heaven. (Huh?)
I’ve watched all I can stomach of that!
Biden’s not by any means impressive, and it’s hugely disappointing that Obama chose such a person as his running mate when there were so much better choices available, but as for Palin - good grief, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more nauseating performance by a politician of any stripe anywhere in the world! Even Robert Mugabe could surely present himself better than that. Throwing out a barrage of empty sound bites, ignoring and shamelessly evading questions when she hasn’t got the slightest idea what they’re about or knows she can’t possibly defend her ticket’s position on them, lying, prevaricating, appealing to the lowest prejudices of the lumpenly stupid, unable to express any coherent, logical train of thought, palpably bereft of the barest intelligence, peppering her garbled “rearing of heads” nonsense with ludicrous inanities, and demonstrating with her every word and look that she’s a thousand times less fit for the office she aspires to than even the dreadful duo who have dragged the United States so low in the last eight years.
Utterly, totally nauseating! How could anyone in their right mind and wishing the best for their country and countrymen possibly advocate voting for that?
Thanks Omni. Great input. :bravo:
[quote=“Omniloquacious”]I’ve watched all I can stomach of that!
Biden’s not by any means impressive, and it’s hugely disappointing that Obama chose such a person as his running mate when there were so much better choices available, but as for Palin - good grief, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more nauseating performance by a politician of any stripe anywhere in the world! Even Robert Mugabe could surely present himself better than that. Throwing out a barrage of empty sound bites, ignoring and shamelessly evading questions when she hasn’t got the slightest idea what they’re about or knows she can’t possibly defend her ticket’s position on them, lying, prevaricating, appealing to the lowest prejudices of the lumpenly stupid, unable to express any coherent, logical train of thought, palpably bereft of the barest intelligence, peppering her garbled “rearing of heads” nonsense with ludicrous inanities, and demonstrating with her every word and look that she’s a thousand times less fit for the office she aspires to than even the dreadful duo who have dragged the United States so low in the last eight years.
Utterly, totally nauseating! How could anyone in their right mind and wishing the best for their country and countrymen possibly advocate voting for that?[/quote]
Wow! Tell us how you REALLY feel! I agree with your over all sentament, but I don’t think she did that baddly for a new girl in an old boys club! Yes, Biden was not at all impressive–basically, he just stood there and let her do all the work for him. Not a bad strategy, I guess.
Well, she’s making me laugh. She is way out of her league and completely clueless about most things. I’m not actually sure whether this is meant to be a serious debate or a SNL skit.
Closing Remarks.
Palin: big emphasis on fighting for our freedom, fighting for our freedom, fighting, fighting, and only one man in this election has actually fought for our freedom: John McCain.
Biden: need for fundamental change. Dignity, respect, work hard, believe in your country, your neighborhood, when you get knocked down get back up.
Strangely, Biden closed with God Bless American and protect our troops. Odd that she – the Christian and Republican – forgot those fundamental closing cliches.
Nice summary there, Omnni, and I completely agree, the problem is the voting public do seem to buy these empty sound bites. The appeal is similar to what kept that arsehole Howard in power in oz for all those years. Empty appeal to the working poor, It’s the poe faced cynicism that does my head in.
HG
I felt that Palin did ok in the first half of the debate, but Biden totally blew her away on foreign policy. She was simply saying sound bytes throughout much of the debate. Too much generalities on her and McCain being mavericks and her being an outsider.
Biden almost choked up toward the end when talking about becoming a single parent. Did anyone notice that?
I have to give credit for Palin looking at Biden in the eye when making her points. Obviously she is more interpersonal than McCain, who did not even look at Obama during his debate.
Feel like throwing up your lunch?
littlegreenfootballs.com/article … ents/#ctop
I have to hand it to the Republicans, they never criticize their own, no matter what. It’s cultlike.
Palin held her own. No, she didn’t win the debate; yes, it was a lot of generalities and sound bites, but she more than exceeded the low bar set for her. It was no where near the train wreck that some had predicted. I was watching CNN with those “mood indicators” at the bottom of the screen and it was interesting to note that Biden seemed to receive more approval from women more often than Palin.
[quote=“Omniloquacious”]I’ve watched all I can stomach of that!
Biden’s not by any means impressive, and it’s hugely disappointing that Obama chose such a person as his running mate when there were so much better choices available, [/quote]
:bravo: Aside from how the Cubs played tonight, I’ve never seen a more lukewarm/half assed attempted to go after something so important.
[quote=“Mother Theresa”]She’s a liar and a bitch too. Attack, attack, attack, smear, lie, smear.
I flat out don’t believe her when she accused Obama of trying to raise taxes on those making $42,000/yr; I do believe Biden when he responded that her allegation was false, she mischaracterized that Bill and McCain also voted in favor of it.[/quote]
It’s a false accusation which has already been debunked by analysts, resulting in the McCain campaign dropping that particular lie (out of their huge bag of lies). Apparently Palin is happy to just keep lying to the American public and distorting the truth. And why not, after how miserably she has done recently, and how far behind the campaign is? She’s got nothing to lose, at this point.
Here’s the above-linked debunking: [quote]In addressing the issues of taxes, Governor Palin has made claims about Senator Obama’s policies that are not correct. She revived, for example, an accusation that he and Mr. Biden voted “for the largest tax increases in U.S. history” and also charged that he would raise taxes “for those families making only $42,000 a year.” Mr. Obama voted twice this year in favor of a budget resolution that would have allowed the tax cuts that President Bush pushed through Congress in 2001 and 2003 to expire at the end of 2010, as the original law mandated. But that, by the definition of the Congressional Budget Office and other tax experts, does not constitute a tax increase. The resolution, if not accompanied by other tax changes, envisages an increase in taxes for an individual earning $42,000 a year who has no dependents and owns no real estate. But it would not apply to a family. Indeed, estimates are that a family of four making as much as $90,000 would not see a tax increase.
In addition, the McCain campaign months ago abandoned its argument that Mr. Obama favored a historic tax increase. It did so after tax analysts and other economists debunked the claim, saying that nothing contemplated by either party comes anywhere near the tax increases put into effect to fight World War II. Ms. Palin, however, revived the charge.[/quote]
[quote=“MT”]Biden appears infinitely more knowledgeable and credible. “And, you know how they’re coming up with the $5K,” asks Biden. By taxing people and dropping coverage on thousands. “I call that the ultimate bridge to nowhere,” he concluded. [audience laughs] :bravo:
Biden very credible on McCain’s $4B tax cuts for oil companies. Paliin, we have John McCain to thank for this, we have John McCain to thank for that. Whatever. She’s just uttering empty words. Biden’s definitely kicking her butt. She’s just a kid; he’s an extremely experienced professional.[/quote]
I realize that since expectations for her were in the sub-zero range, her ability to stand up there and not completely lose it will have right-wingers screaming victory, but [color=#4040BF]had expectations been where they SHOULD be, which is at the level of performance expected of someone who may have to take over as President of the United States at a moment’s notice, it is quite clear that Palin was nowhere near as knowledgeable, credible, experienced or prepared as Biden. [/color]Based on where the bar SHOULD be, not where it had dropped to after Palin’s disastrous and embarrassing past few weeks, Biden IMO won this debate. Palin often resorted to uttering empty words and dodging the question, and Biden didn’t have to. Palin’s attacks were generally well refuted by Biden, but not as well as they could have been. Biden did an ok job of restraining his loquaciousness for much but not all of the debate, and did well in being friendly and respectful toward her and not committing gaffes. But I would have liked to see a bit more punch from him.
Palin couldn’t have done better, given her intellectual emptiness. Her trainers did a very good job rescuing her from the abyss. And Biden should have done better in delivering knockout punches. But I don’t think that this was a draw. [color=#BF4040]Biden had substance that flowed naturally. He was clearly ready to be Commander in Chief if needed. Palin had facts crammed into her by her handlers, and lacked a natural depth and breadth of knowledge, and it showed. She rescued herself from her own embarrassments of the past two weeks, but she didn’t do anything, IMO, to rescue the McCain ticket, nor did she REMOTELY convince me that she is anywhere NEAR ready to be Commander in Chief if needed. [/color]
Yes, Dragonbones. Your last paragraph is exactly right. Regrettably, people often don’t vote based on competence but on whose team they have always rooted for, as stupid as that may be.
I just saw Biden winning CNN’s quick vote by a landslide. Of course, it’ll be better to see the scientific polls (with random sampling, and limited to US voters) later, but seeing the landslide made me curious about what other sites’ polls were showing, and all the ones I’ve found so far seem to be in agreement:
The Forbes poll asking whether the debate had helped people make up their minds was the most interesting part to me, with 1 out of 5.6 saying yes, and of those, more than 3 to 1 deciding in favor of Obama-Biden. It’ll be interesting to see whether more scientific polls in the next couple of days back that up.
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Do you think these people answered any of those polls
HG[/quote]
:roflmao:
Inbreeding will do that to you.