But the point is how does having his fingerprints change anything other than maybe helping to identify the body afterwards.
This system only works one way, coming into the states, and unless there is intelligence to suggest that the person concerned is involved in terrorism then it serves no purpose.
Why shouldn’t people give their fingerprints? What is the big invasion of privacy here. Everyone is already photographed for every other piece of id that they have so I assume that this is no big deal, but personally I do not get it. I am still waiting for the big invasion or curtailment of civil and constitutional rights that were supposed to affect me because of the Patriot Act. Honestly, some of these comments are so unreal that they are laughable. I will not say whose in deference to sensibilities, but come on people, stop being such patsies for the wacked out media scare stories. Did you know that eating 26 bran muffins a day may cause cancer or did you know that exposure to wet paint for more than 265 consecutive days may be unhealthy? You have a better chance of falling victim to some creditcard scam either at an ATM over the net so what is all the shrill worry about the American requirements for? Do you worry about the other ones? Everyone should take a deep breath and mellow the you know what out.
Mr. Smith:
What will taking photographs and fingerprints actually solve? Can you tell me?
How will this prevent terrorism?
How will treating millions of innocent people like criminals before they enter your strange collection of states be in the interests of US security?
So far, no one has come up with a valid reason - including the US.
For your information, my driving licence, insurance card and every other peice of ID I need to carry back home does not contain my photo except for my passport. And seeing that US immigration can see it upon my arrival why do they need to take it again?
I’m wondering what kind of outcry there would be if the US required all of it’s citizens to give fingerprint samples?
If I ever go to the land of confusion and paranoia, I’ll be wearing fake prints. Bastards. 
And your point is?
I believe that there are databases containing the photographs and sometimes the fingerprints of known terrorists, criminals, felons, etc. and this will ensure that fake passports cannot be used. This will be a small inconvenience to pay for the average traveller for preventing the one in a million chance that a terrorist will get through. Considering the billions of travel excursions, this could add up to the hundreds or even thousands and if that prevents one 911, sign me willing to be inconvenienced.
Dangerotter:
I think that hexuan’s point is that all British are evil scumsucking bastards who nonetheless make great allies during times of need.
[quote=“fred smith”]I believe that there are databases containing the photographs and sometimes the fingerprints of known terrorists, criminals, felons, etc. and this will ensure that fake passports cannot be used. This will be a small inconvenience to pay for the average traveller for preventing the one in a million chance that a terrorist will get through. Considering the billions of travel excursions, this could add up to the hundreds or even thousands and if that prevents one 911, sign me willing to be inconvenienced.
Dangerotter:
I think that hexuan’s point is that all British are evil scumsucking bastards who nonetheless make great allies during times of need.[/quote]
Fred, if that really is the reason, then why are not ALL travellers required to be “scrutinised” including US citizens. Why keep them on file after use if a database already exists as you say, why the photograph, peoples appearances can change both naturally and artificially over time, hell even fingerprints can be altered. No doubt you would be singing a different tune if a Democrat had introduced this rather than a Republican.
What database of felons etc are we talking about, if US then most non US felons would not be on the list anyway.
Perhaps it is time countries like the UK stopped being allies and took the same approach as the US, unless i benefit from my action or involvement then go f**k yourselves.
[quote=“Dangermouse”]
And your point is?[/quote]
Er, Fred, that wasn’t quite my point…
My point is that no nationality should be exempt from giving this information - it isn’t logical. The title of the thread refers to UK citizens and I am saying a UK citizen took an explosive device on board an aeroplane. That same UK citizen could have given his passport to someone else with which to leave the USA in connection with a terrorist offence.
Why should British citizens be exempt from this new US immigration requirement ?
In any case, the EU has agreed to include biometric data on passports, so anyone who doesn’t like it will have to stay at home I guess.
This is precisely one of my points. Criminals have their fingerprints and photos taken. Why apply this rule to innocent people travelling to the US especially when most of them are giving the States money through tourism and business.
Why aren’t the records erased upon departure?
You still havn’t thought of a valid reason for employing this disgusting act of traveller humiliation.
Hexuan would say that - he’s Irish.
Gotta go to Boston next week, via Toronto, and came across this when I was checking out Visa requirements.
flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/traveli … heUSA.aspx
Looks like this has been on the cards for some time, its just not been ‘common knowledge’.
Note that its also a check in/check out system.
So, no problems with Canada, but I’m going to get my prints taken for just a few days in the US! :fume: I hope its not goint to take too long, cos this going to be a bitch of a trip to with the extra hassles. 
Why is getting fingerprinted a humiliation? How?
All EU nations must also be fingerprinted IF their passport is not biometrics. So back to you again, where’s the beef. EVERYONE is required to go biometric not just “certain” countries. But in reality are we really going to pretend that there are not certain countries out there that are going to be more carefully scrutinized than others. Are you saying that Saudi Arabia and Egypt are not going to get more scutiny than the Bahamas or Fiji? Given the levels of terrorist from certain nations this only makes sense. It is what insurance companies base risk on, it is what gives mean to statistics. Fair? You betcha!
Really? when am I to havea biometric passport then, Fred?
Humiliation is being treated like a criminal and having personal details taken for no reason.
Where is the reason? You still havn’t answered me.
Goofy Gopher:
Explain to me how having your fingerprints taken is a violation of your rights. All new passports being issued in the US are machine readable as are many in the EU. Much of this info is being included and therefore would preclude the need for fingerprints. Are you sure that yours need to be taken? Maybe yes, maybe no, but I believe that these are used to crosscheck against known databases of criminals AND it is also used to keep a tigher lid on those who come to the US and how long they stay. There are now records of exits not just entrances. We are keeping track of people during their whole stay. Given that every other country in the world has done this for a long time, how is it such an outrage just because the US has only started doing it now? Talk about overreactions.
Besides, if I really wanted to violate your “rights” by getting your fingerprints, I could. I would not need to ask the airport authorities for them. Anyway, it would be a lot easier to surreptiously get your fingerprints than say your ear prints since I might have a hard time pulling your head out of your ass.
[quote=“Roach”]I hope its not goint to take too long, cos this going to be a bitch of a trip to with the extra hassles.[/quote]15 Seconds they say.
[quote=“Dangermouse”]Really? when am I to havea biometric passport then, Fred?[/quote]Very soon, they are having trials now. Your next passport has a good chance of having biometric details. Your next driving licence will also contain a photo if you ever need to get it replaced or changed.
Fred, so please tell me why US citizens who are not in possession of one of the new passports do not have to be finger printed etc. All the reasons you have given apply to them also, and no checks between entry and exit are made.
This is the reason why some are peed off by these rules, either apply them for all, or for none. Why do they need to be kept on file after the cross check is done. answers some of the questions instead of prevaricating as usual.
Who cares about someone taking your finger prints? It is done electronically–no messy ink!
I don’t understand what the uproar is. Did you call the doctor that had you and bitch him out because he violated your rights by taking your hand and footprints? Did you feel you were treated like a criminal? Did you call up your kindergarten teacher and tell her she violated your human rights because that plaster hand print you made as an art project violated your human rights? Maybe she poured herself a duplicate and kept it as a secret record–you never know, you know.
If you don’t like it, then don’t go to the States. I think it is pathetic they haven’t wised up anyhow and offered foreign visitors a tax refund service like many European countries do. That’s enough to make me want to minimize my trips there.
Flicka:
You don’t understand. Traveller has a “thing” with the US so no matter what it does or does not do, he is going to have something to bitch about. There is never any consistency to his positions unless you take anti-Americanism to be the primary filter.
I already have a biometrics passport so I don’t really know. Should Americans get fingerprinted too? Why the hell not? I certainly would not object.
Flicka, your post is utter nonsence. How does going to the doctor violate your human rights? If you go to the doctor, you go because you are ill.
The doctor (probably) wont use your information and cross check it against a background of known criminals.
(If the criminals are known, whats the point of having a database of non criminals to cross check against)?
I will not have a biometric passport. There is a big movement against this in Britain - the same as the introduction of ID cards. All these are measures so the government can keep tabs on you.
I can understand the need for a driving licence with a photo.
So Fred, why should the US government have a record of my fingerprints when this status is reserved for criminals - a violation of rights for a non criminal.
Tell me also how this will combat your terrorism problems.
Please also tell me why this system hasn’t been applied to US citizens as Traveller states.
Fingerprints can only effectively be used if a person has comitted a crime previously and his or her fingerprints are left at the scene of another crime. What use is millions of foreign nationals fingerprints?
What use is this against the war on terror.
Please tell me.
It seems Fred that you really have no answers or argument for this ridiculous procedure. I would suggest therefore that you take your head out from up your arse, however you are up there so far you are coming back out of your mouth and the operation would be pointless.
[quote]The power of Congress to exclude aliens altogether from the United States, or to prescribe the terms and conditions upon which they may come to this country, and to have its declared policy in that regard enforced exclusively . . . is settled by our previous adjudications. [/quote]Almeida-Sanchez v. United States, 413 U.S. 266, 292 (1973), quoting Lem Moon Sing v. United States, 158 U.S. 538, 547 (1895); and citing Fong Yue Ting v. United States, 149 U.S. 698, 711 (1893); Yamataya v. Fisher, 189 U.S. 86, 97 -99 (1903); United States ex rel. Turner v. Williams, 194 U.S. 279, 289 -290 (1904); Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. v. Stranahan, 214 U.S. 320, 335 -336 (1909); and United States ex rel. Volpe v. Smith, 289 U.S. 422, 425 (1933).
caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/g … &invol=266
[quote]The power of exclusion of foreigners being an incident of sovereignty belonging to the government of the United States as a part of those sovereign powers delegated by the constitution, the right to its exercise at any time when, in the judgment of the government, the interests of the country require it, cannot be granted away or restrained on behalf of any one. The powers of government are delegated in trust to the United States, and are incapable of transfer to any other parties. They cannot be abandoned or surrendered. Nor can their exercise be hampered, when needed for the public good, by any considerations of private interest. The exercise of these public trusts is not the subject of barter or contract. [/quote]Chae Chan Ping v. United States, 130 U.S. 581, 610 (1889).
caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/g … 0&page=581
The US has no right to take a sample from me, because I did not give them the right to take it. I am a foreign national.
[color=red]
THE US CAN GO AND F%&K ITSELF.
[/color]
How dare you. The United States does not have the right to impose it’s laws on anybody who is not a US citizen unless a person has broken a law already in existence whilst in the united States. I’d sooner burn off my fingertips then give the US government my prints when I am not a criminal - and I’m serious.
And still no one has given me any reasons as to why a database will counteract terrorism.
In response to how the US can impose this requirement on foreign nationals…
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
If the french can impose their anti-nazi law on Yahoo, then don’t see why fingerprints can’t be done as well. Granted the cases are slightly different but the principle is the same. A country is imposing their laws on the people within or entering their country.
THAT said, I agree with the others the US should either fingerprint everyone or not do it at all. Terrorists will just enter on passports that don’t require fingerprinting. Anyways, it smells a bit like big brother but at least fingerprinting can’t track ya inside the US. They arent dog tagging people thank the lord.
While I prefer easy travel between countries, I accept that countries - for various reasons - have different standards for letting people in. Interesting topic: is visiting another country a right or a privilege?
Bhutan’s government has established a stringent set of rules which means you must travel on a pre-arranged itinerary and pay US$165-200. You are forced to pay through the nose, in effect get ripped off. Is this fair?? Is it a violation of private parts… I mean … rights!!