An interesting view from The Telegraph. Hmmm…one of the english lingo fish-wraps may have to change its weekly banners.
[quote] Vatican ready to sacrifice Taiwan for China
By Richard Spencer in Beijing, (Filed: 16/05/2005)
The Vatican is moving quickly to improve relations with Communist China, which has not recognised the Holy See since Chairman Mao drove out the papal nuncio more than half a century ago.
A former senior Vatican diplomat suggested ties could be renewed. “If they give us the possibility, we’re ready tomorrow,” Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran said.
But the price of rapprochement would be the cutting off formal ties with Taiwan, which Beijing regards as a non-negotiable condition for any country. Cardinal Tauran’s weekend comments were apparent confirmation that Benedict XVI was referring to China last Thursday when he invited countries that did not have representatives in the Vatican to reconsider.b[/b] telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … world.html[/quote]
AWOL, since you specified “Another example of the West sacrificing ideals (religion, political freedom etc) for pursuit of the holy $…”, am I to understand that the ancient and profound nations of The Far East would not follow such a path? If so that comes as quite a surprise.
I had always understood from my study of religion (B.A. San Diego State University 1982) that organized religion is just another business and that businesses go where the money is. The problem betwenn the pointy hat folks in Rome and with the modern day Mandarins running the PRC is a simple first year business admin problem; to wit; who gets veto power over the managers of the “franchise”.
In a broader sense, why on earth should any major western power give a fuck what happens to Taiwan? I have never understood why the pro-Taiwan folks think this island means so much. Hell, the locals 99% of the time don’t give a damn what happens, why should “the West”. And local Taiwanese business owners and their families certainly should have no bitch with Rome switching sides, after all most major Taiwanese business are busy making those wonderful Renmebai (or whatever the PRC money is called.) which they then spend their in the PRC or convert to US$$.
yours in Cosmic Political Science
Rev. Brian
Universal Life Church
Headquartered in beautiful Modesto California
remove the ‘west’ from my original statement and insert “potential/current/past/whatever Taiwan ally”. I am aware of the organise religion run as a business reality, thx for the refresher course.
as for the pro-Taiwan crowd… well it might have something to do with the island being their home? plus i havent met 99% of Taiwans population so i cant pass judgement on what they are thinking on issues as complex as the TW-China one, but i am glad you have your finger on the pulse.
[quote=“brianlkennedy”]AWOL, since you specified “Another example of the West sacrificing ideals (religion, political freedom etc) for pursuit of the holy $…”, am I to understand that the ancient and profound nations of The Far East would not follow such a path? If so that comes as quite a surprise.
I had always understood from my study of religion (B.A. San Diego State University 1982) that organized religion is just another business and that businesses go where the money is. The problem betwenn the pointy hat folks in Rome and with the modern day Mandarins running the PRC is a simple first year business admin problem; to wit; who gets veto power over the managers of the “franchise”.
In a broader sense, why on earth should any major western power give a fuck what happens to Taiwan? I have never understood why the pro-Taiwan folks think this island means so much. Hell, the locals 99% of the time don’t give a damn what happens, why should “the West”. And local Taiwanese business owners and their families certainly should have no bitch with Rome switching sides, after all most major Taiwanese business are busy making those wonderful Renmebai (or whatever the PRC money is called.) which they then spend their in the PRC or convert to US$$.
yours in Cosmic Political Science
Rev. Brian
Universal Life Church
Headquartered in beautiful Modesto California[/quote]
On the contrary more Taiwanese people vote than almost any other democratic nation by % ratio and even numbers. The % ratio usually surpasses America. So Taiwanese people very much care about politics and the country otherwise they wouldn’t vote. The Pan-Reds here also demonstrated that a very high number of Taiwanese students are willing to die for the country versus say America (since they forgot to compare to other countries and didn’t know that the majority of any citizens in any country are not willing to die). Its really a moral issue, switching diplomatic ties to China requires 2 things, 1) the Vatican not recognize Taiwan, 2) the Vatican gives up control over the churches in China. Both do not benefit the Vatican. The Vatican standpoint is clear, it is willing to recognize China but is vague on sacrificing Taiwan and is not willing to compromise on giving up control over its followers in China.
Yours in Metaphysics, Divinity, and Biblical Studies,
Reverend Dr. Sean Su,
Universal Life Church
Headquartered in beautiful Modesto California
Interesting comments.
I am in agreement with the # of PRC Chinese vs # of Taiwanese in regards to the “business” aspects of switching Vatican focus. Simple logic there.
The ocean is bigger on the mainland with more fish to catch/souls to convert.
The article mentions two interesting other items.
The officially sanctioned RC churches and Preists already in operation.
The network of underground - non-PRC sanctioned Preists and congregations extant. Owing to the rather impressive organizational history of the RC church this will be a major factor for the PRC to deal with if the Vatican does give official sanction to the PRC.
Also, given the political nature of the RC organization, I expect certain …uh…negotiations and compromises will be reached. That should be interesting to see what develops.
I see no corrollary with the Muslim groups in the west of China.
As for the ‘obligatory’ Christian/religion bashing posts…oh well, I guess it impresses someone.
Thats such a naive statement. You imply that the Vatican chooses recognition based on the religious affilition of the leaders of the subject nation. The leadership that controls HK is highly anti-religious. So CSB has more appeal than the CCP at this time.
Haha, turn the oceans into wine.[/quote]
No, he would part the waters in the Taiwan Strait, let a few dozen divisions of the PLA roll into it and then drown their asses just like his pop did the Pharaoh.
That’s the Old Testament vengeful God. Jesus is of the New Testament forgiving God. Quite the liberal, turn the other cheek philosophy and all that. All one needs to do is accept China, the One and Only China, not to mention turn away from false prophets, and all will be forgiven.
In that regard you have touched upon the religious aspect of this issue. “One China” and “Taiwan Independence” could be view as ideological antithesis, each viewing the other as the manifestation of the antichrist on Earth. To extend the theological analogy further, the question remains if the evangelical nature of these two
