Visitor Visa to ARC - New Law?

Legal Visa & Residency
1

I’ve just been informed by one of the larger chain schools that the government has just implemented a new law stating foreigners can no longer switch their 60-day visitor visa to an ARC visa in Taiwan. I must take the work permit the school will have secured for me to HK and apply for a resident visa, which will take two days.

Has anyone else heard about this?
If so, is the new law effective immediately?
Do you think I’d have any luck w asking the school to contribute to the cost of the trip seem as I can’t work for them without it and given it’s such short notice (I’ll be arriving next week)?

2

I haven’t heard about this. If it is true, that really sucks for new teachers! I would make sure while negotiating that the school would have to pay for the trip though.

3

If you check this thread:

[forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … 772#223772](ECCT info: R.O.C. visa application procedure tightened

you’ll see this came up a few weeks ago.

But so far no one has volunteered the information that they have been affected by the so-called new policy.

4

Every so often Taiwan likes to turn the clock back several years. Like in the mid 90s when they briefly required degrees to be verified by overseas ROC offices. Let’s hope they go the whole hog and turn it back to when before work permits were necessary.

5

[quote=“kategelan”]If you check this thread:

[forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … 772#223772](ECCT info: R.O.C. visa application procedure tightened

you’ll see this came up a few weeks ago.

But so far no one has volunteered the information that they have been affected by the so-called new policy.[/quote]

I’m your huckleberry.

Here’s what happened when I went to HK to apply for a 60 day visa:

[ul][li] I handed them the usual letter from the employer, and requested a 60 day visa
[/li]
[li] I was told that I was not permitted to apply for a 60 day visa, since a 60 day visa is for tourist purposes and I was clearly not a tourist
[/li]
[li] I replied that I had been sent by my school to obtain a 60 day visa for the specific purpose of applying for an ARC, and that the letter explained everything
[/li]
[li] They told me that my letter was wrong, and that I was applying for a tourist visa under false pretences
[/li]
[li] They then told me that I had to apply for a resident visa or an employment visa
[/li]
[li] Then they told me that I needed a work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan
[/li]
[li] I replied that I had been told that in order to receive the work permit letter, I needed the visa
[/li]
[li] They told me that the reverse was true - in order to receive the visa, I needed the work permit letter
[/li]
[li] I asked them what I was supposed to do now
[/li]
[li] They told me that I was supposed to obtain a work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan, and they would process an employment or resident visa
[/li]
[li] I asked them how long it would take for a work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan to be processed
[/li]
[li] They told me it would take 7 days
[/li]
[li] I said fine, asked for my passport back, and told them I would return with the letter
[/li]
[li] They informed me that they were witholding my passport, and that they were not going to permit me to return to Taiwan without an employment or resident visa
[/li]
[li] I asked them if they expected me to stay in HK until I had somehow obtained the work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan (which I clearly could not visit without leaving HK)
[/li]
[li] They said yes, that was the idea
[/li]
[li] I asked if there was any visa I could use to return to Taiwan, in order to apply for and obtain this work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan
[/li]
[li] They informed me that there was - either the employment visa or the resident visa (for either of which, I required the work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan)
[/li]
[li] Since this was clearly impossible, I asked if I could return to Taiwan on any kind of tourist visa in order to apply for and obtain this work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan
[/li]
[li] They informed me that there was no way they would issue a tourist visa to someone who was clearly intending to work, since I would be a applying for a tourist visa under false pretences[/li][/ul]

At this point I could see why they were separated from me by bullet proof glass.

The end of the story is that I begged, pleaded, and cajoled, and was permitted to return to Taiwan using my visa-free status, on the condition that I return in 30 days with my work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan.

This whole business took 2 days, 2 trips to the visa office, 3 hours of waiting, and cost NT $6,000, at the end of which I still didn’t have a visa.

My school was totally incensed (not at me, at them), particularly because they hadn’t been informed by anyone as to this change of procedure, and has since sorted matters out for me.

I should be able to return at the end of this month and pick up resident visas for both my wife and I (the NT $6,000 we have already spent will be credited to us for this purpose).

Apologies in advance for not knowing the correct terminology - I suspect ‘work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan’ may not be strictly accurate, but that’s how they described it.

6

They what?

There’s no way in hell they’re allowed to do that.

Brian

7

Could someone please re-explain what a new teacher should do when coming to Taiwan to teach? I have a friend coming in next week. He already has his 60 day visitors!

8

They what?

There’s no way in hell they’re allowed to do that.[/quote]

Let me put it this way - there’s a woman behind two inches of bullet proof glass, with my passport. In the same office, there’s a security guard.

If she says she’s not going to give me my passport, there’s not a lot I can do other than what she tells me.

She might not have been allowed to do it, but she wasn’t going to give it back.

Edit: She also told me that I was the fifth person that morning to whom she had told the ‘new rules’.

9

As far as advising people what to do, the sad truth is that you’ll have to tell them that noone knows just what to expect at the moment.

From that memo that was in another thread, it seems that the new rules are that if you are here on a visitors visa, you will have to go to HK (or elsewhere) to get that converted to a residency visa. Fortigurn’s problem was applying for a visitor’s visa when his a\intention was to work. This has never been allowed. So I would say your best option is this:

  1. Apply for a 60 day visitors visa (extendable) in your home country. Tick for purposes of tourism. (Study might be better if you want to be extend your visa as a student for a while before getting a work permit, but could possibly cause problems int hat you have to stop being a student before you can apply for a work visa). Do not mention that you intend to work.

  2. Upon arrival, get your employer to apply for a work visa as quickly as possible.

  3. If you take a while looking for work, or your employer is taking his time, first try and get an extension to your visa with any documentation you may have that your work permit application is under way. Consider enrolling in Chinese classes for an extension. Otherwise, do a visa run to HK, and tell them you want another visitors visa for more travel. Again, do not mention that you are applying for a work permit.

  4. Once your work visa application is completed, see if that will get you your residency visa and ARC the way it used to - ie you don’t have to leave Taiwan. Otherwise you’ll be on your way to HK, with documents to get a residency visa there, if that’s what the new rules entail.

Brian

10

That is a fact.

From what I have been told here, and from what I have been told on other Taiwan forums, as well as in Taiwan itself, that is the way things have been done for years.

I have been working for 3 months in Taiwan now, and I still don’t have my ARC (I had expected it in 6 weeks given the information on this forum and others).

I was told (on this forum and in Taiwan), that what you do is you needed a job before you have your ARC, and you need a 60 day visitor/tourist visa in order to get your ARC (a landing visa is non-transferable). I was told on this forum and in Taiwan.

I was also told that in order to get my visa I needed a letter from my school informing them that I had a job in Taiwan, and that my school was sponsoring my ARC. I had a letter from my school giving them this information.

The issue is that a travel/tourism visa is no longer transferable to a residency visa.

[quote]So I would say your best option is this:

  1. Apply for a 60 day visitors visa (extendable) in your home country. Tick for purposes of tourism. (Study might be better if you want to be extend your visa as a student for a while before getting a work permit, but could possibly cause problems int hat you have to stop being a student before you can apply for a work visa). Do not mention that you intend to work.

  2. Upon arrival, get your employer to apply for a work visa as quickly as possible.

  3. If you take a while looking for work, or your employer is taking his time, first try and get an extension to your visa with any documentation you may have that your work permit application is under way. Consider enrolling in Chinese classes for an extension. Otherwise, do a visa run to HK, and tell them you want another visitors visa for more travel. Again, do not mention that you are applying for a work permit.

  4. Once your work visa application is completed, see if that will get you your residency visa and ARC the way it used to - ie you don’t have to leave Taiwan. Otherwise you’ll be on your way to HK, with documents to get a residency visa there, if that’s what the new rules entail.

Brian[/quote]

I do not see how you get your residency visa without leaving Taiwan, since your 60 day visa is not transferable to a residency visa. The new rules say you have to leave the country, apply for a residency visa outside the country, and re-enter.

11

For anyone else in that situation, there certainly are some things you could do.

If you have any sort of recording device, turn it on and tell them you’re recording them. Then make them repeat that they’re not going to give you your passport. Then threaten to go to your embassy and summon the police.

I suspect that after one such conversation like that they would never, ever do it again. I imagine that the headline “Hong Kong Police Raid Taiwan Office” is not something their bosses would like to see.

12

For the record, when I pointed out that the 60 day visa with letter from employer thing has been done by plenty of people, and that a 60 day visa is supposedly transferable to a resident visa, the woman told me ‘Last month you can do this - now you cannot do this. New policy’.

I’m learning that ‘New policy’ and ‘New rules’ are the catchcry of Chinese beauracracy.

13

[quote=“Hine”]I’ve just been informed by one of the larger chain schools that the government has just implemented a new law stating foreigners can no longer switch their 60-day visitor visa to an ARC visa in Taiwan. I must take the work permit the school will have secured for me to HK and apply for a resident visa, which will take two days.
[/quote]

[quote=“Fortigurn”][quote=“kategelan”]If you check this thread:

[forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … 772#223772](ECCT info: R.O.C. visa application procedure tightened

you’ll see this came up a few weeks ago.

But so far no one has volunteered the information that they have been affected by the so-called new policy.[/quote]

I’m your huckleberry.

Here’s what happened when I went to HK to apply for a 60 day visa:

[ul][li] I handed them the usual letter from the employer, and requested a 60 day visa
[/li]
[li] I was told that I was not permitted to apply for a 60 day visa, since a 60 day visa is for tourist purposes and I was clearly not a tourist
[/li]
[li] I replied that I had been sent by my school to obtain a 60 day visa for the specific purpose of applying for an ARC, and that the letter explained everything
[/li]
[li] They told me that my letter was wrong, and that I was applying for a tourist visa under false pretences
[/li]
[li] They then told me that I had to apply for a resident visa or an employment visa
[/li]
[li] Then they told me that I needed a work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan
[/li]
[li] I replied that I had been told that in order to receive the work permit letter, I needed the visa
[/li]
[li] They told me that the reverse was true - in order to receive the visa, I needed the work permit letter
[/li]
[li] I asked them what I was supposed to do now
[/li]
[li] They told me that I was supposed to obtain a work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan, and they would process an employment or resident visa
[/li]
[li] I asked them how long it would take for a work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan to be processed
[/li]
[li] They told me it would take 7 days
[/li]
[li] I said fine, asked for my passport back, and told them I would return with the letter
[/li]
[li] They informed me that they were witholding my passport, and that they were not going to permit me to return to Taiwan without an employment or resident visa
[/li]
[li] I asked them if they expected me to stay in HK until I had somehow obtained the work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan (which I clearly could not visit without leaving HK)
[/li]
[li] They said yes, that was the idea
[/li]
[li] I asked if there was any visa I could use to return to Taiwan, in order to apply for and obtain this work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan
[/li]
[li] They informed me that there was - either the employment visa or the resident visa (for either of which, I required the work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan)
[/li]
[li] Since this was clearly impossible, I asked if I could return to Taiwan on any kind of tourist visa in order to apply for and obtain this work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan
[/li]
[li] They informed me that there was no way they would issue a tourist visa to someone who was clearly intending to work, since I would be a applying for a tourist visa under false pretences[/li][/ul]

At this point I could see why they were separated from me by bullet proof glass.

The end of the story is that I begged, pleaded, and cajoled, and was permitted to return to Taiwan using my visa-free status, on the condition that I return in 30 days with my work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan.

This whole business took 2 days, 2 trips to the visa office, 3 hours of waiting, and cost NT $6,000, at the end of which I still didn’t have a visa.

My school was totally incensed (not at me, at them), particularly because they hadn’t been informed by anyone as to this change of procedure, and has since sorted matters out for me.

I should be able to return at the end of this month and pick up resident visas for both my wife and I (the NT $6,000 we have already spent will be credited to us for this purpose).

Apologies in advance for not knowing the correct terminology - I suspect ‘work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan’ may not be strictly accurate, but that’s how they described it.[/quote]

Thank you for being my Huckleberry. :slight_smile:

It sounds like a terrible experience. And it certainly proves that something weird is afoot.

It

14

[quote=“kategelan”]Thank you for being my Huckleberry. :slight_smile:

It sounds like a terrible experience. And it certainly proves that something weird is afoot.[/quote]

It was a nightmare, and I still don’t know what’s going on.

[quote]It

15

True. What I meant is, try it and see if the new rules are what we believe them to be, and are actually being enforced.

What I meant, by it always being the case that you can’t work on a visitor’s visa, is that this is the ‘official line’. Of course, due to the near (perhaps total) impossibility of getting a residency visa outside of Taiwan, before you start working, it has always been common practice to get a visitor’s visa, start working, then change to a residence visa. But, as far as I know, you’re still not supposed to tell them you want a visitor’s visa so that you can work. Your’e supposed to help them turn a blind eye, by pretending you’re not working.

Anyyway, we need more people like Fortigurn to relate their own personal experiences, before we really know whatis going on.

Brian

16

All I know is that I was told that even if they gave me a visitor visa, I would not be able to transfer that to a resident visa once I was in Taiwan, so I had to apply for a resident visa anyway.[/quote]

Yes, but given the complete mess the system is in now, we won’t know that for sure until some poor sucker with a Visitor Visa is refused at BOCA Taipei when he or she tries to exchange visas.

I’m not trying to be pedantic but I just dont believe anything apart from the direct experience of a user of the system anymore. I especially dont believe what one TW bureaucrat tells me another one in the same system will do. Haven’t we discovered that many of them don’t know their asp from their elbow?

In every country the visa and work permit system is usually administered by people who will never have to navigate it themselves. But Taiwanese officialdom seem stunningly unable to make that leap of imagination necessary to arrive at a fair, transparent and administratively efficient set of procedures. Unless they just don’t want to? :astonished:

17

True. What I meant is, try it and see if the new rules are what we believe them to be, and are actually being enforced.

What I meant, by it always being the case that you can’t work on a visitor’s visa, is that this is the ‘official line’. Of course, due to the near (perhaps total) impossibility of getting a residency visa outside of Taiwan, before you start working, it has always been common practice to get a visitor’s visa, start working, then change to a residence visa. But, as far as I know, you’re still not supposed to tell them you want a visitor’s visa so that you can work. Your’e supposed to help them turn a blind eye, by pretending you’re not working.

Anyyway, we need more people like Fortigurn to relate their own personal experiences, before we really know whatis going on.

Brian[/quote]

It’s not illegal to work while covered by a Visitor Visa. It is illegal to work while you don’t have a Work Permit (either job-specific or - for APRC holders - open). The exceptions to this are those who are married to Taiwan citizens. These people do not need a Work Permit.

To take an example, Elton John will come into Taiwan either on visa-free entry or with a Visitor Visa to do his upcoming concert. His promoters will have got a Work Permit for him from the GIO (perhaps through the CLA or perhaps directly).

The Work Permit and Visa are related but are not the same thing.

18

Right, but they will not issue you with a visitor’s visa if your intention is to work. Or something. Hell, it’a slways been messy, and it’s changing again,so who knows.

Brian

19

Just a quick note. If they withold your passport immediately ring the Hong Kong Police and inform the Consulate-General or whatever your country has. Refusing to return a passport is a criminal offence (theft) and the Taiwan office in HK has no diplomatic status to hide behind.

In Chinese the term “ting liu qian zheng” does not necessarily mean “visitor” and I know of one American citizen who obtained a work permit to come to Taiwan on a what I’ll call a “short stay visa” (ting liu qian zheng), came here, did his work, paid taxes (the co. did that for him) and left.

Has AIT, the European chamber of commerce, or the BTCO got anything to say about this ?

In terms of “purpose” it used to always be possible to extend a “visitor” visa on the basis that you have been offered a job. I have done it myself. You show them the employer’s letter and tick the box “employment” on the “visitor” visa application form.

Clearly that is a matter of grave concern for those arriving now, but we all know the Taiwanese government is incapable of making, developing, or implimenting any sort of policy whatsoever.

Is it any wonder that people work illegally when attempts to do things legally result in this kind of crap.

Far far easier to get a work permit in China (yes I have).

20

Right, but they will not issue you with a visitor’s visa if your intention is to work. Or something. Hell, it’a slways been messy, and it’s changing again,so who knows.

Brian[/quote]

Yes, that’s what that crazy passport-snatching lady in Hong Kong said. But that’s not the law. (Not any law that has been passed, published and promulgated anyway). How many times have we (okay, I then) given them a copy of my employment contract to get a Visitor Visa in the past? Four! There has been no new Immigration Law since then, and no new Regulations, just second-hand announcements of a ‘new policy’.

Say you’re coming to work here for five weeks. You do need a Work Permit. You can’t come in visa-free. I bet they give you a Visitor Visa and not a Resident one.

So, it really is a case of ‘who knows?’ because anything but the most recent direct experience counts for nothing. Even the law seems to count for very little.

Like you, I’m just totally baffled. And I feel really sorry for the uncertainty it causes to people trying to navigate the system at the moment. Why the hell does it have to be so complicated? :astonished:

Still like to hear from people who tried and were not allowed to transfer from Visitor to Resident Visa at BOCA Taipei so we can put the pieces of this jigsaw together. :help:

The passport-snatcher isn’t a reliable witness in my book. She’s got the power but not the knowledge or common-sense that should go with it.