Waegong meaning in Taiwanese

Just wondering if waegong means foreigner in taiwanese. I have waiguorened out since I got here. Ever a laoguai from a nice young lady. I saw this list from a talk about the word adoga

quote=“Cola”]阿啄仔番 (a-tok-a-HUAN) Pointy-nosed barbarian
紅毛番 (ang-mo-HUAN) Red-haired barbarian
西洋番 (se-iunn-HUAN) Western barbarian
死番仔 (si-HUAN-a) Bloody barbarian
白番仔 (peh-HUAN-a) White barbarian
黑番仔 (oh-HUAN-a) Black barbarian
洋鬼子 (in Chinese) Western devil
死老外 (in Chinese) Bloody foreigner
白豬 (in Chinese) White pig[/quote]
番 means savage or barbarian - it is used for any non-Han peoples; for example the Taiwanese aborigines are still called 番仔 by some Han Taiwanese.
死 literally means “dead” but as a prefix means something like “bloody” or “fucking” (but not as strong as the latter

And a crossing lady called me a se iunn Huan when I was thanking her for directing me across traffic, Heartwarming. I know waigong means grandfather In mandarin but I am getting this way too much

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I don’t know Chinese, but Google Translate translates 外公 (wàigōng) as grandpa and “maternal grandfather.”

Bing Microsoft Translator translates 外公 (wàigōng) as grandfather.

DeepL Translate translates 外公 (wàigōng) into US English as Grandpa and Grandfather, and into UK English as Grandfather, Grandpa, Granddad, and Grandad.

Also, when I use “外公” or 外公 in Google Image Search, I get lots of pictures with elderly people in them.

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I apologize for the error.

Now I’m curious, too. I hope somebody comes along who can tell us what the Taiwanese word waegong means.

Paging @hansioux, @tempogain, @KongTaigi, and any others who know Taiwanese.

Maybe it’s just guā-kok (外國), though you would probably need to add a lâng at the end to actually say foreigner. I’ve never heard anyone use the term se-iûnn-huan outside of period dramas.

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There is also the recent wai-guo-ren 歪國人 which is a Mandarin term to call someone a 外國人 and mock their accent at the same time. I don’t know people would say this to a white expat or a tourist though.

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Thanks, @hansioux! You’re a scholar and a gentleman!

I just remember the traffic lady saying se-iunn-HUAN)
To me cause se-iunn sounds like mandarin xihuan to like and wondering what Huan meant.

Well I have a beard and kinda look like a 1650’s dutch sailor so I guess she wanted to go all koxinga on me I mean it was tainan.

I don’t think the beard is helping me much in Taiwan but you are who you are. I do pretty well when I talk directly to people.my mandarin is moderately ok and most people’s English is not.

I just want to reiterate that the word Huan doesn’t necessary mean barbarian in the Latin sense.

I mean consider these usages:
一番
一番話
三番兩次
番號

The word and character are ancient, and it originally meant to do things in turns, to flip over things (in turns), or to dig up soil (in turns as in one after another). Original character means imprints in the farm. Its derived meanings gave us characters like 翻, and 播. The meaning of in turns and one after another gave it a derived meaning of numbers, or groups, and divisions.

The first usages of the character to refer to non-Han people seems to be referring to Muslims. 入番 meant converting to Islam, and 番僧 meant Imams. This usage is no earlier than the Yuan dynasty, in fact the earliest usage I can found are all from Mid to Late Ming. After the term was popularized it was also applied to Europeans and retroactively to non-Han people in the past.

Since the character never had the meaning of barbarians prior to that point, my guess is the word is a phonetic translation for a foreign word used to describe foreign people, and it was adopted as a way to be polite since it would have avoided using words like 蠻 or 夷, which meant barbarians at the time. Since neither the Muslims nor the Europeans were really barbarians, after all they had ships that could travel to China to conduct business, the first usage of 番 in the non-Han context was just “foreign”. Words like 番茄 (tomato), 番石榴 (guava) all reflect that. I mean foreign eggplants and foreign pomegranates make a lot more sense than barbaric eggplants or barbaric pomegranates.

My personal theory is that 番 would be the phonetic translation of the Persian/Arab word Farang, which was their phonetic translation of the word Franks, and used to refer to Europeans in general.

I think the context was still foreign when it was first used to refer to Indigenous Taiwanese people, like 東番記 (Foreigners to the East) written in the 1603 about a 20-day military expedition to drive out pirates based in Taiwan.

If 番 indeed was a phonetic translation of the word Farang, then it has come full circle when it is again used to refer to white Europeans.

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Thanks for response.

I just saw this wiktionary entry on 化人, which pretty much confirmed my guess.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/化人

Etymology 2
Possibly ultimately from Old French franc through Persian فرنگ‎ (farang, “Frank; French; European; Christian”). Compare Urdu فرنگی‎ (farangī~firangī), Hindi फ़िरंगी (firaṅgī, “foreigner”), Burmese ဘရင်ဂျီ (bha.ranggyi, “Roman Catholic; Caucasian especially Portuguese”), Thai ฝรั่ง (fà-ràng, “westerner”), Lao ຝະລັ່ງ (fa lang, “Frenchman; white foreigner”), Khmer បារាំង (baarang, “Frenchman; European”), Malay Peringgi (“Portuguese”) as in Batu Ferringhi, Thai English farang (“western foreigner (in Thailand)”), Vietnamese phật lăng (“franc”), Cantonese 佛郎機/佛郎机 (fat6 long4 gei1), Mandarin 佛郎機/佛郎机 (fólángjī), Hokkien 番人 (hoan-lâng, “foreigner”).

So the original two character word 番人 huan-lâng is the phonetic translation of Farang.

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“Chinese White Pig”
Is that an insult or a compliment "
?
:rofl:

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Cause those people who use it with ill intent would be racist. They just hate other races simple as that.

Crusher is that a literal interpretation?

Are you saying you encounter racist remarks on a daily basis? It’s hard to believe as I have never heard anyone using any of those terms. I am a native Mandarin and Taiwanese speaker, and I can’t imagine why anyone would call you waegong(外公 in Mandarin?)if you are not actually their maternal grandfather… I have no idea what laoguai (老怪 in Mandarin?)and “se-iunn-HUAN” are.

Also, adoga, laowai, and waiguoren are not derogatory.

Adoga is highly derogatory in context. It’s the same as ch@nk or sl@pe, a reference to a facial feature as a means to “other” someone. The fact that most Taiwanese are not aware it is derogatory merely highlights their ignorance.

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老鬼

It is a word stronger than laowai.

When people feel free to sit across from you on subway and start talking about you and stare at you but if you look up at them it’s somehow wrong. I know enough mandarin to know when people are talking crap. Oh if someone was in the west and said something about the color if their skin or the shape of their eyes or other physical features it wouldn’t be offensive.

In the west we assume everyone can speak English and
People usually now call out when someone us being an ass. When I was in school I was one if 4 white kids that rode an all black bus from the projects and we sat in the back of the bus. You learn words gave consequences real quick. I am surprised cause I spent time in a small city at the far end of dongbei and it wasn’t this bad. Taipei and kaohsiung are much better.

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I worked on sm Asian grocery In America. Most of my coworkers did not speak English. It helped me improve speaking Chinese alot. One day he’s talking to a girl and he calls me laowai. I said " she knows my name". It’s like Jewish people talking about someone in their presence and calling them a goy. If people are not friends and it’s said in jest it’s offensive.

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Ok I’m just going to enjoy all the nice people of taiwan cause there are many.

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Google Translate translates 老怪 (lǎoguài) as boss. :idunno:

Edited to add:

Bing Translator says 老怪 (lǎoguài) means “Old Monster.”

DeepL Translator says 老怪 (lǎoguài) means “old geek,” and lists as alternatives “old geezer” and “old fogey.”

If I do a Google Images search for 怪, I get a mix, but there are some pretty weird pictures in the mix.

DrEye politely hints that they ain’ no setch thing as 老怪.

For just 怪, standing alone, DrEye gives several translations of the usual kind, but adds quite, I guess in a sense of 怪 as being a word used for emphasis.

老鬼 laogui

Like jiuguai means alcoholic. Alcohol.monster

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