Wanna learn more about classroom management and discipline?

[ImaniOU]

How do you feel about classroom management and positive discipline?

• I am very interested in learning about classroom management and positive discipline.
• I am somewhat interested in learning about classroom management and positive discipline.
• I’m not really interested in learning about classroom management and positive discipline.
• I think it’s a waste of time to learn about classroom management and positive discipline.
• I don’t know what classroom management and positive discipline are about.

This is for serious teachers only. If you do not have anything constructive to contribute to the topic, please refrain from trolling. Thank you!

I have been doing a lot of reading, research, planning, and practice for the last two or three years on how to become a more effective teacher. I have several books on classroom management and using positive discipline that I have been using in my classes and the results have been showing themselves very visibly. Right down to having kids who have been classified as being lazy or troublemakers become very sweet for me. Or perhaps, I see them as being very sweet children and so by giving them that image of themselves, they reflect it back to me. Also something that I’ve learned in my self-training. Plus, I have a special place in my heart for challenging students.

I have kids solving their own problems and when they can’t solve the problems themselves, their classmates help them come up with ideas. All I do is pretty much moderate the meetings and step in when suggestions for solutions might interfere with school or classroom policies to redirect the conversation. I don’t nag, scold, lecture, threaten, or punish my students, and I definitely don’t yell. It actually has been years since I’ve raised my voice in a classroom to control students.

My latest triumph of autonomous problem solving was yesterday, with one student who was supposed to do a short presentation sharing a part of her daily writing, but was not prepared for it. When I told her that she had a problem and she needed to solve it, at first she suggested she could just make it up another day. Wasn’t going to fly. Then she suggested she could just think it up while she did her presentation. Also wasn’t going to fly. This student, I believe, is used to sweet talking her way out of doing what she was supposed to with her prior teacher. Wasn’t going to work with me. So I asked her if she wanted to turn over her problem to the other students to see if they had some ideas. It didn’t take long for them to come up with something that worked so she wasn’t going to miss her presentation for the day. The students suggested that we move the presentations from the beginning of class to the end of class for that day and then the girl would have enough time to write up her presentation and do her regular work. She agreed it would work for her, and the other 2 students, who were also going to present that day, were okay with the idea. And they all did their presentations later in the class, as they had suggested, including the girl.

Again, a lot of teachers out there seem to have a lot of worries, complaints, issues, etc. with classroom management and discipline (which often go hand-in-hand). Even though not everything can be applied to buxiban classes, there is a lot that can be and will make your life easier and less stressful in teaching. Seriously.

But the question is in finding a group who is interested in this.

Also, while checking out one of my favorite teaching websites - teachers.net run by Harry and Rosemary Wong (the authors of The First Days of School - a must-read for all people who want to be effective teachers) and saw that they are offering an online course on classroom management.
I’m not sure how much weight it will carry with buxiban owners who are more interested in making money than in educating kids, but the differences which have happened in my classrooms is more than enough to convince me that the benefits far outweigh the cost and appraisal be damned. My classrooms pretty much run themselves - the students come in after greeting me and start working without reminders. But they do offer a certificate if you want one. The cost is a little steep unless you are really interested in becoming a better teacher - $124 to $112 USD, depending on how many people are in a single group ($99 if we are a group of 50 people… ) - a very worthy investment in my own humble as I’m more than willing to plonk down the money to improve my teaching skills, but I’m just crazy like that. Anyways, it’s just a thought.

So share your thoughts. Are there people out there who would like to get together to share and/or learn more about classroom management strategies? Is there anyone who would like to join me in this online course to become trained in building a classroom management portfolio? Drop your thoughts below and in the poll.

[dangerousapple]

“The Essential 55”, by Ron Clark. Excellent advice on building an environment of mutual respect in the classroom. Not all of it works well in an EFL classroom, but quite a bit of it does. A valuable resourse for new teachers who are confused about what classroom management actually is.

[R_Daneel_Olivaw]

Personally, I find demonstration far more instructive than discussion.

[Dr_Zoidberg]

@ImaniOU

Are there people out there who would like to get together to share and/or learn more about classroom management strategies? Is there anyone who would like to join me in this online course to become trained in building a classroom management portfolio?

Yes to both questions.

[ImaniOU]

Sweet. Dr_Zoidberg, if you want to check out the online course, the website is classroommanagement.com . I haven’t bought The Essential 55 yet as I am limiting myself to only one new teaching research book a month, but I can check it out.
A short list of books I have found useful for positive discipline and classroom management:

For Positive Discipline:

How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk and How to Teach So Kids Will Learn by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish

Positive Discipline - A Teacher’s Guide From A to Z and Positive Discipline in the Classroom by Jane Nelsen, Ed.D et al

For Classroom Management:

The First Days of School by Harry and Rosemary Wong

Real Teachers, Real Challenges, Real Solutions: 25 Ways to Handle the Challenges of the Classroom Effectively by Annette L. Breaux and Elizabeth Breaux

The Laughing Classroom by Diana Loomans and Karen Kolberg

I would still like to perhaps have a meeting/panel discussion/workshop on how to use good classroom management and positive discipline in teaching ESL/EFL students.

And I welcome more people to join us on the online course. It would be really helpful to have a group of use here working on this and being able to support each other and discuss the coursework. School owners might even want to use what they learn from it to help train their teachers to be more effective or even to encourage their teachers to take the course themselves as a way to improve the quality of learning happening in their classrooms… hint, hint.

[ImaniOU]

@R. Daneel Olivaw

Personally, I find demonstration far more instructive than discussion.

So let’s run a workshop instead! I personally don’t mind running an interactive workshop on positive discipline. I’d actually enjoy it, even though I’m not big on public speaking (except when in a classroom full of students, of course).

Please, if you have ideas or an interest in this area of teaching, I’d love to hear about it.

[Joesox]

I’d be interested in coming to a workshop on this. My classroom management practices work well but it’s always useful and interesting to learn about new ideas.

I think a standard textbook for this kind of stuff is “Building Classroom Discipline” by Charles and Senter. I haven’t read it yet but it’s at the top of the list for books to buy.

pearsoned.co.uk/Bookshop/det … 0000072205

It describes and compares 18 models of classroom management (including most or all of the ones mentioned above). I think it takes a fairly academic approach but the plus side is that it does a good job of analysing and comparing the different models objectively. At least, that’s what I get from reading the reviews!

[anon38216271]

@dangerousapple

“The Essential 55”, by Ron Clark. Excellent advice on building an environment of mutual respect in the classroom. Not all of it works well in an EFL classroom, but quite a bit of it does. A valuable resourse for new teachers who are confused about what classroom management actually is.

Should I be in the teaching field in the next few weeks I would certainly be open to this. I’ve had to alter alot of my patterns, but still raise my voice which is just a waste of time and energy and I sooo want to get away from all that.

As for the essential 55, i’ve read it briefly and found it not really applical (sp) for Taiwan, as a lot of it has culture conflicts. IMO i wouldn’t suggest it for teaching in taiwan.

[R_Daneel_Olivaw]

@ImaniOU

[quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”]Personally, I find demonstration far more instructive than discussion.

So let’s run a workshop instead! I personally don’t mind running an interactive workshop on positive discipline. I’d actually enjoy it, even though I’m not big on public speaking (except when in a classroom full of students, of course).

Please, if you have ideas or an interest in this area of teaching, I’d love to hear about it.[/quote]

I’d be glad to join in on a workshop. Could be the next “Teacher Network” topic.

[ImaniOU]

The numbers are still pretty small as far as interest goes. I find it hard to believe that there are that many people out there who are not interested in learning how to control a class other than throwing a sticky ball around and yelling.

But then again, perhaps I was a bit too optimistic about the ESL industry here improving.

The offer still stands. I’m already putting together my ideas for a workshop presentation and I’m saving up my money for the online course.

If you are interested in becoming a better teacher, say it loud and clear.

[Toasty]

I find it hard to believe that there are that many people out there who are not interested in learning how to control a class other than throwing a sticky ball around and yelling.

It’s a tad presumptuous to assume that lack of interest in your workshop idea means people aren’t interested in “learning to control a class other than throwing a sticky ball around and yelling.” I detect disappointment in the tone of your last. Consider the following, though: many teachers receive such workshops and training through their current (or past) employers; they may have acquired knowledge they feel to be adequate through their own networks, research or accumulated experience; or it may just be they aren’t interested in talking shop with other teachers during their time off, preferring instead to charge their batteries by pursuing a variety of other interests that make them complete people and better able to give their all when they are “on the clock.” Resist the urge to judge the EFL industry and teachers in general based on a low level of interest in your workshop idea.

[jdsmith]

@ImaniOU

[quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”]Personally, I find demonstration far more instructive than discussion.

So let’s run a workshop instead! I personally don’t mind running an interactive workshop on positive discipline. I’d actually enjoy it, even though I’m not big on public speaking (except when in a classroom full of students, of course).

Please, if you have ideas or an interest in this area of teaching, I’d love to hear about it.[/quote]

I know a good place for this to take er, place…and so does RDO.

[ImaniOU]

@Toasty

[quote]I find it hard to believe that there are that many people out there who are not interested in learning how to control a class other than throwing a sticky ball around and yelling.

It’s a tad presumptuous to assume that lack of interest in your workshop idea means people aren’t interested in “learning to control a class other than throwing a sticky ball around and yelling.” I detect disappointment in the tone of your last. Consider the following, though: many teachers receive such workshops and training through their current (or past) employers; they may have acquired knowledge they feel to be adequate through their own networks, research or accumulated experience; or it may just be they aren’t interested in talking shop with other teachers during their time off, preferring instead to charge their batteries by pursuing a variety of other interests that make them complete people and better able to give their all when they are “on the clock.” Resist the urge to judge the EFL industry and teachers in general based on a low level of interest in your workshop idea.[/quote]

I considered it low interest because out of hundreds of posters floating around this website (and more that are just lurking), nine seems like a rather low number.

So in the interest of the people you’ve mentioned, I’ve added a fifth choice for those who know all they need and have no interest in learning more. However, stagnation is not a very healthy trait when it comes to work. But who am I to judge. At least this way, those who didn’t fit the prior categories and chose instead to just not vote have their choice available now.

[Toasty]

However, stagnation is not a very healthy trait when it comes to work.

Again, needlessly presumptuous. Many teachers have their own networks and resources for keeping their skills sharp. Lack of interest in your workshop idea says nothing about the skills nor the dedication of the average EFL instructor. Not wanting to attend might mean they get enough of this kind of stuff at work. It might mean they don’t wish to spend their free time talking shop. It could also mean they live too far away to travel into town to attend. It could mean a lot of different things. Why automatically assume stagnation, lack of professionalism or some other negative attribute with regards to those not interested?

Nice idea you have, but accept that not all will be interested.

[funkymonkey]

@ImaniOU

I considered it low interest because out of hundreds of posters floating around this website (and more that are just lurking), nine seems like a rather low number.

@Toasty

It could also mean they live too far away to travel into town to attend.

Thanks, Toasty. It bothers me when people automatically think all foreigners in Taiwan live in Taipei.

[anon38216271]

Toasty, IMHO you pointing out what is truthful is ,also, close to taking this thread off topic. The topic is about intrest in improving one’s skills. If we can’t have it in person then it would be good to start the ball rolling online.

I could use a fresh up. I need some fresh ideas, not for the kids but for my own sanity

So I’ll start-

Turn out the lights. When the kids are refusing to lower their voices or participate according to age, then I turn out the lights and wait for them to quiet down. I explain in a low calm voice that their behavior is out of line with their age and that they have choices. Then I give the choices they have.

Next

[ImaniOU]

I just sit. Well, sit, raise my one eyebrow, and watch my watch. The kids almost instantly notice the silence even if they’re being loud. As soon as they all quiet down, I say, “That only took 10 seconds. I hope to see that time improve. Let’s continue, shall we…” I absolutely refuse to talk over anyone and I tell them that. I ask, “Can you talk and listen at the same time? Well, right now it is my turn to talk. You will get your turn after I have had mine.” And when there are multiple students trying to talk at the same time, I say, “Hold on a minute. I might have two ears, but I can only hear one thing at a time.” That usually gets them to laugh and then let the first person speak first.

By the way, there’s nothing in the poll that says you have to be in Taipei nor that the workshop, if this becomes a workshop, has to take place in Taipei. If there are 3 people in Taipei who show interest and 8 people in Kaohsiung, then guess where we’re probably going to meet. As the saying goes, “If Mohammed doesn’t come ot the mountain, then the mountain comes to Mohammed.” And the online program doesn’t require any kind of particular residency.

As for not wanting to talk about teaching outside of work, I just happen to be one of those crazy people who is so enthusiastic about teaching that it would never occur to me that improving my skills is something that requires being on the time clock for. I mean hell, I’ve easily spent a few thousand (US$) and used my vacations and weekends to get teaching training with no chance of being financially rewarded for my extra work. Some of us don’t feel that teaching is just something you do to earn money.

I’m only trying to find those people who are interested in gaining more skills in this area through informal meeting(s) or idea-sharing. If you think you know everything , have nothing to add, or have no interest in being a part of this, there’s no one forcing you to reply or post in this thread.

[jdsmith]

I start screaming at an empty chair in Chinese:

Why can’t you listen to me? I’m the teacher! Why are you so noisy?We are you playing? It’s class time! Don’t you have any manners? Take out your book and sit up straight! Stop talking and listen to the teacher!

[ImaniOU]

I also set up a quieting signal at the beginning of the class so that when I need the students’ attention, all I have to do is give the signal. It’s always non-verbal. This year, I used a thumbs-up. When we had our field day, I was able to quiet all of the students, the ones on my team (which included only two of my students) as well as the rest of the students, 40 kids total, just by doing a thumbs-up. At the beginning of the school year, we practiced the signal over and over until they got it down pat.

I also used sign language in my class after reading an article on teachers.net. I talked with my students about how when someone raises their hand, it is hard for me to tell what they want or what order to pick them in. I asked the kids, “How do you show you have the answer to a question?” They raised their hands. “How do you show you have a question?” They raised their hands. “How do you ask to go use the bathroom?” They raised their hands. “How do you show that you want to talk about your friend’s birthday party?” They raised their hands. Then I told them, “Now if we are in the middle of a lesson and one of you has your hand raised because you want to answer a question, one of you wants to tell me about a trip you’re going to take with your family, and one of you really has to go to the bathroom, how can I tell who to call on first?” They told me that I wouldn’t know who. So I asked them if they wanted to set up a secret code so I would know what they wanted. First I taught them the sign language alphabet really quickly, then went back to focus on a few letters - a, b, c, and q. A for answer, B for bathroom, C for comment or chat, and Q for question. After putting it into practice, the kids suggested an F for finished, E for emergency, and a W for water. They quickly learned the rule that E comes before everything, B and W is almost always a no in the middle of a lesson or if they are slacking in work, Q comes before A and F, and C comes after Q, A, and F. The manual alphabet is actually pretty easy to learn and there are lots of resources out there for teaching it to kids. I was going to do my thesis on using Exact Signed English for teaching ESL to hearing students, but anyways…

I also taught them Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star and the ABC song in sign language as well as some simple sentences like “What is your name?” “My name is ____” and fingerspelling, “Thank you very much”, and the one-handed “I love you”.

[miltownkid]

I let my co-teacher flip out and do ninja shit. I’ve never needed to learned anything because I’ve always had a co-teacher ready to flip out and do ninja shit.

I have a few “moves” but I rarely get to put them to use, let alone try new ones.

@ImaniOU

The offer still stands. I’m already putting together my ideas for a workshop presentation

I’m very interested in participating. I’m also interest in the books you posted. Could I borrow them one at a time?