How about if I am have a skinny waist and want to increase the size of my waist?
I work out regularly and can get big in other parts of the body by lifting weights, however the waist area is really tough for me to get big.
[quote=“914”]Anyone daring enough to post a pic of their abs here?
I don’t have a six pack so I’m not posting yet. 
[/quote]
I had a six pack years ago… now I’ve got a case… 
:s 
[quote=“aceman”]How about if I am have a skinny waist and want to increase the size of my waist?
I work out regularly and can get big in other parts of the body by lifting weights, however the waist area is really tough for me to get big.[/quote]
One thing you can do is take a 15 or 20 pound weight in each hand and hold them down at each side. Now bend over sideways
[quote=“Tigerman”][quote=“914”]Anyone daring enough to post a pic of their abs here?
I don’t have a six pack so I’m not posting yet. [/quote]
I had a six pack years ago… now I’ve got a case… :s [/quote] At least you don’t have a keg. 
[quote=“Dead Wizard”]
Yes, the abs are a relative large muscle group, but it gets worked out plenty when you work on other muscle groups, since it acts like a stabilization muscle. I know plenty of people who have nice abs by just doing compund movements. The biggest muscle group in your body are the upper legs (quadricep/hamstring). Therefore, if there was only ONE exercise I would advise Vay to do it would be squats. Actually, if anyone wants to gain the most muscle mass as fast as possible, I would suggest them to just do squats, deadlifts, bench press, military press, and chin-ups. The five exercises I listed above have been shown to be the most effective movements to build overall muscle mass.[/quote]
As to your suggestion of doing “squats, deadlifts, bench press, military press, and chin-ups” to “gain the most muscle mass as fast as possible”, I hope you really mean to gain the most muscle mass with minimal amount of gym time. And if that’s what you mean, I think I would be even stingier with the list of lifts and eliminate the military press.
If we are talking about calendar time, then I very much disagree. But in the end, what a particular person’s workout is depends on their own fitness goals and what they enjoy/tolerate doing.
For me, doing only the five lifts mentioned would be insane. I don’t drag my butt out of bed at 4:45 AM so I can take the city bus to the gym, and then warm up—say on barbell bench press—for approx. 10 min., then do maybe three intense sets lasting another 10 min., then hit the showers and leave. While I’m there warmed-up, and have a little adrenaline pumping through my system, I’ll go do something like 2 intense sets of incline dumbbell press (give me 7 minutes for that). After that, I might do a set of dips (3 minutes).
At this point, I’ve worked my entire chest using compound movements until it may start to become counterproductive to work it much more. However, I still have a little energy left in the tank. I will now work a smaller muscle group for 4–6 sets (15-20 min.).
Now this workout I described might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but I guarantee you it will yield dramatically better results than if I only did the bench press in this workout. Also, total workout time: 45-50 minutes (actually, I’d shoot for 40 minutes).
Now after working a large muscle group like chest, why did I finish my workout with the smaller muscles? I do it for the following reasons:
- This extra stimulation WILL cause the smaller muscles to grow more
- To prevent these smaller muscles from becoming performance bottle necks in the compound lifts
- TO PREVENT INJURY!!!
I will only explain the injury issue.
In particular, having strong abdominals is essential to lifting safely. Strong abs improve stability and promote proper form. For instance, consider bench press. Someone with weak abs will have a much more difficult time keeping their back in proper position when benching. A large arch in your back when benching is tremendously dangerous. Also, having your back completely flat on the bench is dangerous too.
Now, compound exercises like the bench press done properly are effective at increasing abdominal strength. However, if you never specifically do abdominal exercises, your abs will not be much stronger than just enough to get your compound exercises done. What happens when one day your abs are particularly tired or you increase weight on an exercise? Maybe trouble.
Personally, I like it when my safety mechanisms are slightly over-designed.
If you want good anything, check out this guys website…amazing! Be sure to scroll down to see the progress he has made.
http://www.johnstonefitness.com/
Now for some comments more relevant to the OP.
[quote=“Vay”]For those of you knowledgeable in the body-building scene:
I haven’t had a good muscular abdomen since college, and that was just the blessing of God because I didn’t work at it! Now, at almost 35, I’ve made up my mind that I’m finally going to get rid of my slightly flabby gut and have a good hard stomache.[/quote]
How precisely have you stated your fitness goal? Is the “gut” the
ONLY thing you want to improve? If so, I have bad news. Most
“reasonable” things you can do to improve your gut will have the
unfortunate side-effect of improving your entire physique and physical well-being.
[quote=“Vay”]A couple days ago I started doing sets of crunches, across left, across right, up the middle. I’ve been doing 3 sets of 50 per day, without having to push it too hard.
My question is, without going to the gym, is this an effective way to go about it? If so, approximately how many sets of how many crunches should I be shooting for, if my goal is hard abs in, say, 3 months’ time?[/quote]
Let is be said that the most effective thing you can do is go to
the gym and lift some weights. But that’s not what you want, so…
I suggest doing the following:
Watch Your Caloric Intake
Avoid greasy fat things; keep fat intake as low as possible. Avoid sugar. Don’t do
anything crazy with your protein/complex carbohydrate calorie intake ration.
If you’re doing something like 90/10 or 10/90, that’s bad!
Eat Lots of Vegetables and Fruits
Be sure that some of the vegetables eaten are fresh and not cooked to
mush. Besides the nutrients, fresh vegetable consumption is good for metabolism.
Eat Often
Note: Eat more often per day WITHOUT eating more calaories. This will
increase metabolism and help your body to better utilize the nutrients
you consume.
Drink Lots of Water
Drinking water also aids in nutrient utilization and metabolism.
Exercise
I left the exercise portion broad because this depends on what you
like doing, and because more of your time and effort will probably be
devoted to your diet.
Find physical activities you like and do them often. Also, do them as
intensely and as safely possible, i.e., don’t injure yourself or trigger a
heart attack.
Select physical activities that work more than just your abs.
Crunches are good, but you really need to be working other muscles:
especially your legs.
Also, doing something like crunches EVERY day probably isn’t very
beneficial. Maybe you could alternate days with crunches and
push-ups. If you have somewhere you can hang from, pull-ups would be great.
Stretch
Stretching is good for joint health and injury prevention.
ploor, that is a god damn awful first post in this thread! I don’t mind if you disagree with my advice, what I have problems with the misinformation in your post, some of which might get people injured.
Let’s take a your at suggested routine for chest first:
"For me, doing only the five lifts mentioned would be insane. I don’t drag my butt out of bed at 4:45 AM so I can take the city bus to the gym, and then warm up—say on barbell bench press—for approx. 10 min., then do maybe three intense sets lasting another 10 min., then hit the showers and leave. While I’m there warmed-up, and have a little adrenaline pumping through my system, I’ll go do something like 2 intense sets of incline dumbbell press (give me 7 minutes for that). After that, I might do a set of dips (3 minutes).
At this point, I’ve worked my entire chest using compound movements until it may start to become counterproductive to work it much more. However, I still have a little energy left in the tank. I will now work a smaller muscle group for 4–6 sets (15-20 min.).
Now this workout I described might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but I guarantee you it will yield dramatically better results than if I only did the bench press in this workout. Also, total workout time: 45-50 minutes (actually, I’d shoot for 40 minutes)."
If this indeed is your chest workout, then I have to say it’s pretty light-weight stuff, and I would certainly not gurantee that it would yield better results than having a chest routine consisting of only bench press (not that I would recommend such a routine anyway…). From this post I have reason to believe that you have never done heavy squats or deadlifts in your life; if you did you wouldn’t have made my “power five” routine seem like such a cakewalk, where you’re in and out in 30 minutes. You’re right on one thing though a routine consisting of only those five motions would be insane; insanely punishing. In fact, I wouldn’t advise anyone to do these five motions with heavy weights all in one routine (heavy squats + heavy deadlifts on the same day = recipe for serious injury), but rather with moderate weights with a minute rest between each set (akin to circuit training). Now this is just my personal opinion, but I find your chest routine laughable. In case you haven’t realized your ENTIRE chest routine consistings of only THREE "working’ sets, two sets of dumbell incline press and one set of dips. If you think that only doing three sets is enough for your chest, to the point where doing anymore would be considered “counterproductive”, then you must be really weak, or just not want to have impressive pecs. And the rest between sets is also way too long. 7 minutes for two sets of heavy incline dumbell press??? That’s a reasonable time for heavy squats and deadlifts, but not for dumbell inclines that are nowhere near as tiring. You make it sound as if your workout is so efficient, where you’re done in 45 minutes, but considering how few sets are actually in your workout and the amount of time between sets, I’d say your routine is pretty inefficient. Also what do you mean by “smaller muscle group”? At first I thought you were refering to the triceps, it’s the most logical smaller muscle group to work out after chest, but then you wrote “4-6 sets (15-20 minutes)”. I mean who works out there chest 3 sets for 10 minutes then goes and work their triceps for 4-6 sets for 15 minutes??? Now by “smaller muscle group” do you mean the abs? Again, why would 4-6 sets of abs take 15-20 minutes??? That’s way too long. So let’s summarize your “chest” routine: 10 minutes of warm up, followed by 3 sets of chest (10 minutes), followed by 4-6 sets of “small muscle group” exercise (15-20 minutes). What is this, the chest routine for seniors over 60???
And then there is your (false) explaination on the role abs play in bench-pressing:
“In particular, having strong abdominals is essential to lifting safely. Strong abs improve stability and promote proper form. For instance, consider bench press. Someone with weak abs will have a much more difficult time keeping their back in proper position when benching. A large arch in your back when benching is tremendously dangerous. Also, having your back completely flat on the bench is dangerous too.”
Yes, strong abs are helpful with a lot of the heavy compound movements, squats in particular, but on the bench press??? Your explaination that people with weak abs tend to arch their back when benching is just so wrong. Do you know WHY people arch their backs when they bench??? The reason is ALWAYS because THE WEIGHT IS TOO HEAVY and has absolutely nothing to do with ab strength. Now do you know why arching your back allows you to bench more? It’s because it increases the leverage of your arms by shortening the distance that the bar has to travel to touch your chest. Powerlifters ALWAYS arch their backs, because in competitive powerlifting it’s legal and you want every advantage you can get. Note that they also where lifitng belts since they already know their going to arch their backs for sure. Now most people don’t train like powerlifters, so why do we see so many people in your local gym perform the bench press with an arched back? The short answer: because they’re idiots. Chances are they’re vanity lifters who just want to boast about their “big” bench while completely ignoring good form. Of course, sometimes people arch their backs at the end of a set to grind out an extra rep or two (know as "cheat reps). Not recommended, and completely unnecessary if you have a spotter (then again why anyone would bench to failure or nearly failure without a spotter is beyond me…). And what is up with the statement: “Also, having your back completely flat on the bench is dangerous too.” Um, are you trying to get someone injured here? Unless you’re training for powerlifitng, the proper form for bench is to ALWAYS have your back flat on the bench (NO ARCH!!!).
I should have known better than to post on a topic as contentious as weight training in a thread where the OP had no interest in said topic.
Dead Wizard, I think we will need to agree to disagree that we each think each others advice is misinformative.
I’ll limit myself to responding to three points:
Your right, 7 minutes for 2 sets of incline dumbell press is a bit long. I generally try to keep my rests between sets under 2 minutes. However, the times I stated are estimates that leave room for stacking/loading weights, waiting for equipment, getting a spotter/spotting others, etc. My routines have no slack time.
As I previously mentioned, my routine has no slack time. So it would be very difficult to increase my lifting volume without increasing time. And increasing time is not an option because after 45–60 min. (it varies by person) catabolism begins to dominate anabolism.
Also, I have to admit that my pecs are my least impressive body part and I am looking for ways to improve it. (Although, I’m not looking for advice from Dead Wizard because he has lost his credibility with me.)
This is an incorrect conclusion. Right now I’m in Austin, Texas (Taiwan here I come!), I don’t do any 1-rep maxs; I train squats and deadlifts in the 4–6 rep range. But if I were just to lift the weight I train with in the Texas State Powerlifting Championships, I would place quite well. (By the way, I have never competed in powerlifting, but some of the people I train with at my gym do compete.)
Yeah, it certainly would be punishing. Foolhardy, even.
Also, never, EVER work your abs with weights unless you wish to increase your waist size. Sheesh. (I’m talking about sidebends with weights, a.k.a. makin’ love handles or, perhaps worse, a plate behind your head while you do situps)
Your abs need work daily.
The best bang for the buck (most efficient workout) would be to work up to light squats every third day (no more than 225lbs), three sets of eight reps each. If you’re young and a bull then maybe every other day. That’ll strengthen your lower back as well (I am assuming, Vay, you are really concerned about 360 degrees here). Take it easy at first, and if you’ve laid off on or have never done squats before then make sure you take the elevator down for a couple days after (you’ll know what I mean, trust me*).
Try to take no more than a minute between sets. The key is full squats with emphasis on technique. If done properly, 24-36 light squats in six or so minutes will fully engorge the rictus (as well as almost every other muscle below your solar plexus): believe me, along its entire length your stomach will hear somebody knockin’ on the door when you’re finished.
Daily: 20 perfect crunches. Again, technique is important and you may have to do 30 or so to get twenty perfect ones. Hold each for full ten count. By the end of the 20th, you should feel as if someone’s stabbed you with a hot knife midway between your belly button and your dick. Especially at first, you may also feel an uncomfortable urge to vomit. It’ll pass.
If you still have time, do the cross-crunch stuff.
And eat right.
That’s all it takes, really.
*–EDIT: If you’re to trust me, then I’d better be clearer. If you’ve never done squats before, then you probably won’t finish even one set of 8 full reps. In fact, at the first feeling of a high hamstring pull, quit. That’s a micro-tear, usually where the biceps ties to the pelvic joint (just below your butt muscle), and it’ll take a few days to heal. The pain will gradually increase, and you’ll suffer, but it’ll heal up good as new and you can carry on after two or three days.
Doing crunches daily is silly. You exercise your abs daily regardless. However muscles need rest in order to grow. No one(and I’m including health magazines) seems to be honest about the time it takes to get good abs. Maybe this depends on body type and cutting out beer completely but it took me almost a year to get the top one and i was already slim.
Doing crunches daily is silly. You exercise your abs daily. Muscles need rest in order to grow. No one(and I’m including health magazines) seems to be honest about the time it takes to get good abs. Maybe this depends on body type and cutting out beer completely but it took me almost a year to get the top one and i was already slim.
ploor wrote:
“Also, I have to admit that my pecs are my least impressive body part and I am looking for ways to improve it. (Although, I’m not looking for advice from Dead Wizard because he has lost his credibility with me.)”
Wow, and you question my credibility. Mind giving me examples where I am blantantly wrong (not just a difference of opinion)? Come on point them out, I did the same for your posts. I’d say the person here dispensing training advice, who believes that weak abs contibutes to people arching their backs on bench and says such utter nonsense like benching with the back flat on the bench is dangerous has a few rather glaring credibility issues he needs to resolve himself before questioning others.
And let’s play spot the irony here: A person posts his “chest routine”, touting it’s efficency with gurantees that it’ll work better than just a routine consiting solely of benching, then follows up in a later post admitting that his pecs are his “least impressive body part” and is “looking for ways to improve it”. Absolutely lame. ploor, did it ever occur to you that your chest is a lagging body part exactly because your “chest” routine is crap???
Abs? Oh you guys mean plural? I just have an Ab, lost the others 
Vay,
Are you still reading this thread? How are your ab work outs coming along?
If you are doing bench presses, or other weights while lying on a flat bench, just a suggestion about the gap in your lower back: bend your knees. If you’re too tall, you can line up another bench if the gym is quite dead. But if you can keep your back as flat as possible, you wouldn’t need to bend your knees obviously.
Have you gotten a fitness evaluation test done? I have had them done every three months. My BMI was 26% in October 2003, now I’m down to 18%. I’m trying to go down to 15% but it’s been at 18% for six months already.
Good luck. Let us how your work outs are coming along.
Vay,
Maybe the best thing to do (if you’re even reading this thread still) is just take everything we’ve said with a grain of salt and research it yourself. It really does depend on what you
I think I can get decent results from ab machines for uppper abs, but are there any exercises that focuses on your lower abs? Thanks.
They key is to go on a diet. Building your abs w/out the diet will merely put more muscle mass under your fat.
As a 125 weight class wrestler in college I used to do free weights about 2-3 hrs a day, working a different part of my body each day. The rest part is important for building muscle. But if you’ve got a big gut, non sense in putting more mass there. I won’t tell you what weight class I’m in now, but it’s certainly not 125.
The most important lower abs exercise is leg raises. For most people, to put your back in the proper position, you should sit on your hands on the end of a bench with your hands holding onto the bench. Holding onto the bench also helps if you eventually desire to add a significant amount of weight.
For best results, work up the abs, i.e., lower abs exercises should be done before upper abs.
ploor wrote:
"The most important lower abs exercise is leg raises. For most people, to put your back in the proper position, you should sit on your hands on the end of a bench with your hands holding onto the bench. Holding onto the bench also helps if you eventually desire to add a significant amount of weight.
For best results, work up the abs, i.e., lower abs exercises should be done before upper abs."
I agree leg raises are one of the best ab exercises to target the lower abs and I was going to give the same advice. There is one problem though, the exercise that ploor describes above is NOT the leg raise (ploor you are rapidly losing all credibility…). Since he doesn’t describe how you move your legs I can only guess at what exercise this really is (it’s most likely a seated knee-up), but it is certainly NOT leg raises. Think about it, unless you’re REALLY flexiable, how far can you possibly raise your legs, so that it’s high enough to generate enough strain on the abs, while you’re SITTING ON A BENCH? You simply don’t have enough range of motion to do leg raises properly while sitting on a bench. There are various ways of doing the leg raise, you can do them LYING down (NOT SITTING), on the dip station, hanging from a chin-up bar, etc. The most common (and easiest) way of doing them is on the dip station. Notice the pads on the dip station? They’re there for people to do knee raises or leg raises. For leg raises you press you back against the pad, your feet should be dangling now with your weight supported by your forearms. From this position raise your legs (hence the name LEG RAISES) approximately 90 degrees so that your feet are in line with your pelvis. Try to keep your legs as straight as possible during the motion. Now that’s a leg raise.
And what is this nonsense about working lower abs before upper for better results??? ploor, do you enjoy making this kind of stuff up? You mind sharing with us all why this is the case?