Water rationing 2015 (Water outages imminent in New Taipei, Taoyuan)

[quote=“buzzkill1”]How many millions of liters of water a day are lost to eroding or inefficient infrastructure? I’m guessing it’s a lot. Empty the dam rivers if need be, just don’t make me have to use a bucket for a toilet.

I go through umbrellas faster than cheap sandals. Everything I see is green and yet there’s a shortage of water. What would this place do if they had REAL water problems? :ponder:[/quote]
Apparently, we lose three to four Shimen reservoirs annually, that’s about 18% according to this article. :frowning:
udn.com/news/story/7312/715327-% … 0%E9%AB%98

Oh, so it’s not only possible, but some countries do it.[/quote]

Where exactly are you going to run the pipeline from? The entire west coast is dry this year. The south has more problems usually but Shimen Reservoir is in the north and that is the one with the biggest problems currently. Even if there was a massive reservoir on the east or northeast coast then you have huge mountains to deal with.

And it’s a fairly awful solution (megabucks expensive) when the better alternative is replace the aging infrastructure (30% leakage rate), setup some water conservation methods (primarily for industry and farming) and raise prices to decrease consumption. If this was a desert like California that only got <200mm’s of rain each year then you start proposing a massive pipeline but that would be dumb in a country that gets massive seasonal rains and only needs to store water for 6 months (8 months tops). Some basic water conservation would likely have completely solved this problem before it became a problem.

I read a fascinating article on how, in developing countries, it is often the private sector that supplies water to the poorest of the urban poor. If anyone is interested in how water markets function in such places I highly recommend this, although beware it’s a pdf download link:

The Informal Small-Scale Water Services in Developing Countries: The Business of Water for those without Formal Municipal Connections

[quote=“Gain”][quote=“buzzkill1”]How many millions of liters of water a day are lost to eroding or inefficient infrastructure? I’m guessing it’s a lot. Empty the dam rivers if need be, just don’t make me have to use a bucket for a toilet.

I go through umbrellas faster than cheap sandals. Everything I see is green and yet there’s a shortage of water. What would this place do if they had REAL water problems? :ponder:[/quote]
Apparently, we lose three to four Shimen reservoirs annually, that’s about 18% according to this article. :frowning:
udn.com/news/story/7312/715327-% … 0%E9%AB%98[/quote]

On that note, a few paragraphs out of the aforementioned article.

[quote]Unlike the municipal water system, which is subsidized by local governments, small-scale providers are forced to operate efficiently. It has been estimated that there is not enough funding to build a public water system in Onitsha (Nigeria) [12], as the population is too poor to support the high, estimated costs of such a system. However, a highly advanced private vending system is able to collect as much as twenty-four times the cost of constructing a public system from this same population by operating efficiently.

In the informal sector, there is virtually no ‘unaccounted-for water’, a universal occurrence in municipal systems. This is because, rather than seeing themselves as managing a large system, informal water providers see themselves as business people, who value the goods they sell and account for them. A private water treatment plant in Kenya, for example, treats only as much water as is necessitated by demand, minimizing waste of treatment chemicals or power for pumping, in the same way that a restaurant would minimize the amount of food prepared during non-meal hours [18]. The same plant is also much more reliable when it comes to paying its electricity bills on time, and therefore, unlike the municipal provider, never suffers from a disruption in its electricity. This is done to prevent the loss of profit associated with a disruption in services. By being more cautious about resource use, this private water treatment plant, which operates in parallel with municipal treatment, is able to make over 80% profit, while the municipality is unable to operate without subsidy [18][/quote]

The residents of Taipei would easily survive without a government water supply: they would simply buy water privately, and use a damn sight less of it.

The previous poster wrote:

[quote]The residents of Taipei would easily survive without a government water supply: they would simply buy water privately, and use a damn sight less of it.
[/quote]

Given this neoliberal position (in which all necessary goods and services should apparently be privatized), you should be pleased that people drinking Taiwan’s non potable water largely rely on private companies to supply all those machines we use every day to get our drinking water.

Guy

I should add that my neighbourhood in Taipei has a “Museum of Drinking Water.” I would be more impressed if the state was able to actually deliver such a thing before erecting a museum celebrating it.

Guy

My post was simply a corrective to the idea that government is needed to supply water (or education, for that matter) to poor people. It isn’t. People may believe it desirable to have the government do this but it is certainly not necessary.

I wonder if building huge dehumidifiers near the reservoirs (or piping it to there) would work. The island is so humid, I can’t imagine it would hurt the environment.

Michael Turton (should you care for his points of view) has a nice post up about Taiwan’s (lack of a) water policy:

http://michaelturton.blogspot.com/2015/03/drought-what-water-policy.html

For me, here’s the money quote:

Taiwan should be going the way of other industrialized countries, installing toilets that conserve water, fixing its pipes, and putting in new water infrastructure for delivery and storage, as well as regenerating its aquifers and caring for its rivers and riverine ecologies. But just the opposite has occurred – Taiwan’s haphazard, exploitative depletion and destruction of its water ecology and water resources is just one of the many ways the construction-industrial state has reduced Taiwan’s living standards and imperiled its future.

Guy

I’d agree with this … but it’s important to realise that when a government becomes so terminally useless that it can’t even arrange water and sewage, civil society is pretty much on its knees begging for mercy.

I know I keep blithering about the Philippines, but here’s another example from that benighted country: privately-supplied drinking water is P2/liter and piped water for general hygiene is P50/m3 as long as you stay below 2m3/month. Those prices are affordable for most people, but the problem with the former is that you have to go and get it from the local store, or pay someone P20 to go fetch it for you on a smoke-belcher; the problem with the latter is that it barely works, and is sourced from finite groundwater supplies that get seriously depleted towards the end of the dry season. So while it may be affordable, it’s hardly the paragon of efficiency and sustainability that free-market cheerleaders make it out to be. When the piped service fails (which it often does) you can pay someone P50 to fetch ~100L from the local hand pump, which is pretty poor value for money (although quite reasonable given the effort involved).

Water-supply charges in Europe are around ~1.5euros/m3, or P100/m3. Recycling charge for sewage (which isn’t even on the radar in the Philippines) is about the same. Considering the much higher level of service, and higher incomes relative to charges (20 minutes minimum-wage per cubic meter in Europe compared to 1 hour per cubic meter in PI), the privately-provided third-world implementation looks even shittier than it actually is.

The kick in the teeth is that the government authorizes and licenses the private co-operatives that handle all this. In other words, the government can’t be bothered to get off its lazy ass and organize the thing properly, but it’s quite happy to take a cut from (and physically hinder) the people who do. Still, I’m all in favour of private-sector service providers if they show up incompetent, grasping governments for what they are.

Anyway - getting back to Taiwan, Turton’s quote above is absolutely spot-on. Spending any amount of time in a shithole where a large slice of life revolves around securing water supplies makes you appreciate how critical it is. No economic shell game can hide that fundamental reality. Taiwan needs to get its act together before the shit hits the fan.

This is a good article from a few years back on the subject.

taiwan-panorama.com/en/show_ … 5&month=01

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I wouldn’t consider myself to be a free-market cheerleader as I believe in such abominations as the redistribution of taxes :astonished: and environmental regulations :noway: like ‘environmental flows’ for ecosystems. But I do think private companies should supply water and, importantly, make their profits from its sale. Only then would there be an incentive to invest in increased storage and fix the leaks. Why on earth would the lovely people at the Water Resources Agency fix anything? Their pay is guaranteed and has no relation to whether they actually supply water or not.

This morning I bought 6 litres of drinking water from Family Mart for NT$70. Seems the water comes from Ilan. I reckon if the shit really hits the fan and the place gets drier than a dead dingo’s donger then convenience stores, or some other businesses, might start selling non-potable water, so people can flush toilets and wash themselves, clothes and dishes. Delivery à la gas bottle would be nice. I had a battle shower this morning, just to start preparing myself psychologically.

Apparently you can wash yourself with sand, although it would be a bit rough on the old donger and practically guaranteed to put any woman in a bad mood. But who knows? One day you’ll walk into OK Mart and see buckets of sand for sale next to the 6L containers of Ilan water.

Stranger things have happened.

Growing up in southern California, we experienced the yearly drought warnings and pleas for water conservation. I still remember “If it’s yellow let it mellow, if it’s brown flush it down.” As a Taoyuan resident I’m trying that again to help conserve water, as well as turning off the shower water while I soap up.

Fortunately I live alone so the toilet issue won’t be too bad during the two-day waterless stretches. I don’t know how restaurants are going to make do with all their dish washing requirements.

[quote=“afterspivak”]The previous poster wrote:

[quote]The residents of Taipei would easily survive without a government water supply: they would simply buy water privately, and use a damn sight less of it.
[/quote]

Given this neoliberal position (in which all necessary goods and services should apparently be privatized), you should be pleased that people drinking Taiwan’s non potable water largely rely on private companies to supply all those machines we use every day to get our drinking water.

Guy[/quote]

The water in Taipei and Xinbei is potable. The government declared it safe to drink, and since then I’ve personally paid to have my own tap water analyzed by a lab. It was given a passing grade, supposedly on par with the tap water in Toronto. We use it for cooking. My wife, ever the skeptic, still refuses to drink it straight from the tap, but it’s safe.

The Taipei government agrees with you:

english.water.gov.taipei/ct.asp? … &mp=114012

What is the Taipei government and what area does it govern?

I have been here more than a decade, and I have not met a single person who would drink the water straight out of the tap, in Taipei City or elsewhere. It may be deemed “safe” but this has not changed people’s behavior. The private machines are still everywhere, including government offices!

It also occurs to me that part of the problem with the water supply is in the storage tanks on top of most buildings. Many are not cleaned or maintained regularly, if at all.

Guy

[quote=“afterspivak”
It also occurs to me that part of the problem with the water supply is in the storage tanks on top of most buildings. Many are not cleaned or maintained regularly, if at all.
[/quote]
Indeed, some people claim that those tanks are not clean (enough).

Well, today there’s some heavy rain ongoing, and the weather forecast says that it will be the same all the week long. Let’s see how much the reservoirs can recover.

Please note the machines are also not very reliable, ie., roaches swim inside the tank.

The water from our rusty tank in the ol gongyu is roach soup, mostly. I had a filter for the shower until the water pressure got so low even the hot water tank can’t be used. I barely dare to use the “potable” water for washing the clothes and dishes, but never for cooking. Even boiled I wouldn’t drink it. The pets also drank bottled until I switched to their own water fountains of filtered water.

As to the rain, it won’t give us much of a respite, as the rain is not directed over the most needed places.

Here in Yilan it’s raining, to no surprise xP

Raining pretty heavily here in Taipei… hope it’s doing the same in New Taipei City and Taoyuan.

Let it rain, let it rain, let it rain!