What are your greatest issues when learning Chinese?

Language Learning Chinese
21

[quote=“jesus80”]In one word: Chinese.

How can I study and learn something that is written in a way that has nothing to do with its sound? How can I learn something with strange sounds that are so close one to each other? and those “tones”! (why do we even call them tones?).

I feel so retarded every time I see a foreigner speaking Chinese… :frowning:[/quote]

Let’s use Ermintrade’s standards, Chinese is a subset of language, but I think YOU are talking about Mandarin.

Practice what Your English tutor Preaches…

Jesus Christ!?!

:roflmao:

22

[quote=“jamezku”]
Let’s use Ermintrade’s standards, Chinese is a subset of language, but I think YOU are talking about Mandarin.

Practice what Your English tutor Preaches…

Jesus Christ!?!

:roflmao:[/quote]
:eh:

23

Well there’s so many the list goes on and on … 這個很 ridiculous…我比較 concern…it’s just lame
Fortunately it’s limited to white collar city business dialogue and not so prevalent in other areas

24

My interpreter friends hate that sort of 中英夾雜 because often the English isn’t even used properly, and it’s hard to translate “from English to English” on the fly. If someone says, 我們玩得很high, you have to exert extra brain power to figure out how to translate from “high” to… well, any other word really.

老闆好像hold不住了 – the boss can’t hold it anymore? Oh my.

25

Or if by some miracle, the English word is used properly, the accent is so strong that you’re left wondering what Chinese word you just failed to understand, usually until it’s too late.

26

Out of all of those, “這樣超有fu” still gets to me the most…

but it’s not like Taiwan is the only place doing it. Thanks to globalization I guess, most Asian countries have a tendency to in-cooperate English words. Japanese not only butcher the original meaning of the words, they also mash them up into Wasei-eigo, like Three Size, Make Drama, Year Of The Coach,

The Philippines also mixes all sorts of English words into Tagalog and other Filipino languages.

From what I hear from Korean shows, they do it as well.

27

What the what?

28

What the what?[/quote]

スリーサイズ = Three Size = a woman’s measurements
メークドラマ = Make Drama = Setting a legendary record, accomplishing a legendary feat.
イヤー・オブ・ザ・コーチ = Year Of The Coach = Coach of the year

29

Thai is the same.

“faen” (from “fan”) → “lover”
“wer” (from “over”) → “excessive(ly)”
“gik” (from “gig”) → “love affair”

30

I agree with your observation that in Chinese essays, in common practice, the main point tends to be built to slowly and not come until the end. While sometimes this style can be rhetorically effective in its own way, mostly, I think it’s mostly a product of:

  1. the influence of the stilted and overdone rhetorical style of classical Chinese essays carried over into modern Chinese;
  2. social and political repression over the past century discouraging the habit of actually saying directly what is on one’s mind;
  3. the lack of a strong writing curriculum or consciousness in local Chinese language learning, perpetuating the imitation of widespread poor writing style.

It is possible to get straight to the point and still write good Chinese prose. It’s just that most writers find it easier to beat around the bush a bit first due to widespread example and sheer habit.

31

Oh, absolutely. But for a student of the language with only so-so Chinese, it usually pisses people off when you start with a contentious point instead of slowly building up. Consider:

“It’s really gross to throw used toilet paper into an open basket.” “You don’t like it, go home.” The person is no longer listening. But if you start with the argument and build up to that conclusion, they are likely to be more receptive to it. I noticed that as my logic got better, I sounded less preachy and more logical in Chinese, and people were more willing to listen to my opinions instead of dismissing them as that guy who runs his mouth.

32

Oh, absolutely. But for a student of the language with only so-so Chinese, it usually pisses people off when you start with a contentious point instead of slowly building up. Consider:

“It’s really gross to throw used toilet paper into an open basket.” “You don’t like it, go home.” The person is no longer listening. But if you start with the argument and build up to that conclusion, they are likely to be more receptive to it. I noticed that as my logic got better, I sounded less preachy and more logical in Chinese, and people were more willing to listen to my opinions instead of dismissing them as that guy who runs his mouth.[/quote]

Point taken. :laughing:

33

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]
“It’s really gross to throw used toilet paper into an open basket.” “You don’t like it, go home.” The person is no longer listening. But if you start with the argument and build up to that conclusion, they are likely to be more receptive to it. I noticed that as my logic got better, I sounded less preachy and more logical in Chinese, and people were more willing to listen to my opinions instead of dismissing them as that guy who runs his mouth.[/quote]
Isn’t it true for all the languages? even for all the cultures? and yes, I am aware that Chinese are way more indirect sometimes…

34

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]My interpreter friends hate that sort of 中英夾雜 because often the English isn’t even used properly, and it’s hard to translate “from English to English” on the fly. If someone says, 我們玩得很high, you have to exert extra brain power to figure out how to translate from “high” to… well, any other word really.

老闆好像hold不住了 – the boss can’t hold it anymore? Oh my.[/quote]

Mr. Spelling Bee can correct other people’s English spelling, but cannot understand 中英夾雜？

Maybe your Chinese isn’t all that great, Hongkowkwei.

Just like your Chinese History sucks too.

:laughing:

35

[quote=“Ermintrude”][quote=“jesus80”]In one word: Chinese.

How can I study and learn something that is written in a way that has nothing to do with its sound? How can I learn something with strange sounds that are so close one to each other? and those “tones”! (why do we even call them tones?).

I feel so retarded every time I see a foreigner speaking Chinese… :frowning:[/quote]

I feel the same way about other things that other people can do easily but that I failed to do. I have had lesson and practiced a lot but am still not the brilliant guitarist I wanted to be. Friends who are just say ‘Do it every day and just keep going’.

I tell you, a lot of the kids I teach would love to have your English ability so you are clearly good at this language stuff.

The thing with learning Chinese is that it’s really boring until you can read and watch films, and it takes a while to get there. But if you want to, you just have to start and keep moving. You need to get over feeling stupid. I sound totally stupid whenever I speak Chinese. Don’t care. I sound stupid in English, so I have no pride about it. :laughing:

The mimic thing is useful. I used to mimic TV ads. It’s great, living with me. :laughing:[/quote]

I find most Chinese language media excruciatingly turgid and boring. That’s my problem. You open up the world of Chinese and you get next to nothing out of it. I’m taking movies, TV, music, academic treatises, ancient literature. No one of it turns me on. Maybe some modern novels might be but I admit
My Chinese ain’t that good to enjoy sitting down and reading through one (I don’t read many novels in English either). The main problem is that theres so little original and interesting thought, music and art coming from China and Taiwan for the modern world. Humor, it’s difficult to translate across cultures. Everything seems to be a comparison of China vs the world, or Taiwan vs the world…or quoting Cheng Yu instead
Of using a reasoned argument.

36

[quote=“zender”]Like Hokwongwei, I am highly fluent in Chinese. Although my vocabulary is still an area I’m working on, the words that I do know flow freely and are usually understood by native speakers. I could also improve my writing.

My biggest problem with learning Chinese is finding people to speak with. For some reason, they seem to lose interest after a minute or two and walk away. Sometimes they try to speak to me in English, but, NO WAY . . . I know that would just impede my progress, and anyway, this is Taiwan.

I’m self taught, and although I’m quite busy with other things, I always learn a new word every month. I remember when I first started out . . . I only knew how to say “good”, and I felt it was hard to communicate with anyone. That was a frustrating month. :neutral:

Fortunately, in the second month I learned how to say “you” and things really took off. Learning “no/not” in month 3 added a whole new level to my discourse. Still, for some reason, few people want to hang with me and chat. :ponder:[/quote]

I never know when to take you seriously zender but you come across as a witty fellow. if Taiwanese
People don’t want to hang around to chat that’s their problem. I suspect its because they want to speak English instead of engaging with you on a human level.
This Is a BIG problem for foreigners in Taiwan.

37

The art of 中英夾雜 perfected.

38

[quote=“jamezku”][quote=“Hokwongwei”]My interpreter friends hate that sort of 中英夾雜 because often the English isn’t even used properly, and it’s hard to translate “from English to English” on the fly. If someone says, 我們玩得很high, you have to exert extra brain power to figure out how to translate from “high” to… well, any other word really.

老闆好像hold不住了 – the boss can’t hold it anymore? Oh my.[/quote]

Mr. Spelling Bee can correct other people’s English spelling, but cannot understand 中英夾雜？

Maybe your Chinese isn’t all that great, Hongkowkwei.

Just like your Chinese History sucks too.

:laughing:[/quote]

… You spelled my name wrong in a post criticizing me for correcting people’s spelling. How do you expect me to respond to this? Don’t set traps just for you to walk into them yourself. :2cents:

I don’t really know what motivates you to post, but I have nothing against you personally. We’ve disagreed on some items, and I’m sure we’ll agree on some. You aren’t accomplishing anything productive by jumping into a conversation that has nothing to do with you and trying to turn it into a personal attack.

39

[quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“Ermintrude”][quote=“jesus80”]In one word: Chinese.

How can I study and learn something that is written in a way that has nothing to do with its sound? How can I learn something with strange sounds that are so close one to each other? and those “tones”! (why do we even call them tones?).

I feel so retarded every time I see a foreigner speaking Chinese… :frowning:[/quote]

I feel the same way about other things that other people can do easily but that I failed to do. I have had lesson and practiced a lot but am still not the brilliant guitarist I wanted to be. Friends who are just say ‘Do it every day and just keep going’.

I tell you, a lot of the kids I teach would love to have your English ability so you are clearly good at this language stuff.

The thing with learning Chinese is that it’s really boring until you can read and watch films, and it takes a while to get there. But if you want to, you just have to start and keep moving. You need to get over feeling stupid. I sound totally stupid whenever I speak Chinese. Don’t care. I sound stupid in English, so I have no pride about it. :laughing:

The mimic thing is useful. I used to mimic TV ads. It’s great, living with me. :laughing:[/quote]

I find most Chinese language media excruciatingly turgid and boring. That’s my problem. You open up the world of Chinese and you get next to nothing out of it. I’m taking movies, TV, music, academic treatises, ancient literature. No one of it turns me on. Maybe some modern novels might be but I admit
My Chinese ain’t that good to enjoy sitting down and reading through one (I don’t read many novels in English either). The main problem is that theres so little original and interesting thought, music and art coming from China and Taiwan for the modern world. Humor, it’s difficult to translate across cultures. Everything seems to be a comparison of China vs the world, or Taiwan vs the world…or quoting Cheng Yu instead
Of using a reasoned argument.[/quote]

Well, yeah. Taiwanese TV is fcking awful, Chinese TV is just so painfully dumb and full of propaganda (Hey! Did you know, Japan were SUPER-MEAN in the war and that China has the MOST BEAUTIFUL COUNTRYSIDE IN THE WORLD?). I was invited to a music festival the other day and I just couldn’t be arsed leaving the aircon behind to watch a bunch of derivative crap in a field. I learned a lot of French listening to Brel and reading Camus (I was at uni, OK? :laughing: ) which I don’t see in China. But there are things. There are always things: in any country, there is stuff that is cool. An outsider would see British TV and think we were a mentally subnormal people, with the singing shows and the house decorating and baking shows, but we also have David Mitchell, ‘Peaky Blinders’ and Laura Marling. There are beautiful, interesting, clever things everywhere, they just aren’t mainstream.

I try an get this over to my students. Hate your reading class textbook? So do I. But you can’t find anything fun in the English-speaking world? Basketball websites? Online gaming? Make-up blogs?

As you said, level is an issue. I’m not exactly reading the Chinese ‘Infinite Jest’ either. In fact, I don’t know if it exists. But I try, because I’ve decided to live here for a certain amount of time and can’t go through life thinking ‘They’re all stupid and boring.’

40

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]
… You spelled my name wrong in a post criticizing me for correcting people’s spelling. How do you expect me to respond to this? Don’t set traps just for you to walk into them yourself. :2cents:

I don’t really know what motivates you to post, but I have nothing against you personally. We’ve disagreed on some items, and I’m sure we’ll agree on some. You aren’t accomplishing anything productive by jumping into a conversation that has nothing to do with you and trying to turn it into a personal attack.[/quote]
Once upon a time, there was a Jew who when slapped on his cheek, he turned the other one. His name was… wait… HongkongPhooey?

:doh: