I dont get it is it because they both speak loudly
the chinese communist party and the cultural revolution, look into it.
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6/10
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I donât get this too. Context would help.
But Iâd guess itâs because we inherited all the chinese traditions. You see, chinese canât even write the word chinese right. They write it simplified.
So itâs important to understand that there has been many China ruled by different people and controlling different territories. When Mao took over, he disliked chinese culture and felt it was holding China back from his Chinese communist Utopia. He set out to destroy elements of chinese culture he deemed impure and capitalist during the cultural revolution. Temples, relics, ancient sites, books, etc were all destroyed during this time.
For example, you wonât find many ancient temples in China. Many westerners go to China thinking theyâll stumble on some ancient shaolin temple, not the case. They were mostly abandoned if not torn down during this time.
Taiwan or rather the ROC as the KMT retreated to the island of Taiwan still believed it was the true China. And has kept more of the traditions and culture alive and preserved. That is why almost all of the treasures of China are in Taiwan. And why only replicas are in China and they resent Taiwan for this.
So in many ways, Taiwan is more like the China of the past than the PRC or what we call modern day China.
But then again, China wasnât some single monolithic empire and culture.
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Yup they stole the name âChinaâ and thought themselves were the real chinese. I mean at least have the decency to come up with your own name if youâre taking over a country. ĺ¤ĺĺ¨ç§Ś to ĺŽĺ ćć¸ all got their own names. Yeah occasionally we got something like 柢 and č柢, but č柢 thought theyâre the legitimate successor of 柢. CCP didnât succeed anything from the old China.
And now people are convinced that they represent the chinese culture. You want culture you go to Hong king, Taiwan, or even japan preserve some old oriental traditions.
But this goes back to the fall of the Tang dynasty. At that time China was invaded by northerners (again), and the âHanâ Chinese were pushed south and to the periphery (Taiwan). Some Taiwanese say their names can be traced back to Tang dynasty ancestors, giving them a kind of China elan, whereas the modern Chinese in China are pretty mixed. Well, thatâs the story. I mean who cares?
Fast forward to the 20th century and the nationalists preserved and promoted traditional âChinese cultureââcalligraphy, poetry and painting etc.âas the over enthusiastic commies were smashing temples and simplifying Chinese characters. You wonât find many active Taoist temples in Chinese cities these days, whereas they are all over Taiwan etc.
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thatâs a fact.
but i donât see much traditional chinese heritage in taiwan either. might be that taiwanâs a relatively new country. they donât have century(not so say millennial) old buildings here. but in general thereâs a scarcity of historical buildings here, whether it be fujian, hakka, portuguese, holland influenced. i guess 99% of the old architecture fell victim to the industrial revolution.
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Well thereâs actually a lot of old temples in Taiwan , you just need to travel around a bit. old buildings, agreed very few. Since Iâve arrived Iâve seen most of the Japanese heritage buildings disappear in Taipei too along with the KMT miMitary camps.
I donât like Taiwan is the real China statements though, itâs not itâs just Taiwan.
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Yeah itâs lazy
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by buildings i also included temples. may should be excluded but i donât see why. most of them were built in the last few decades and most of them look shitty, they donât hold any worth except for the mazu triad gang boss who keeps it.
There was no significant settlement of âChineseâ people in Taiwan during the Tang dynasty. This came much later with the Dutch setting up an entrepot at Fort Zeelandia (now Anping in Tainan) in the 17th century.
If weâre tied up with âChinaâ it is in fact linked to this history of colonialism, specifically settler colonialism. And in this way, Taiwan is closer to places like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and other settler colonies. Would you think of those places as authentically âFrenchâ or âBritishâ?
Guy
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Yeah, we all know the story. But if you speak to Taiwanese some will claim descent from Tang antecedents. I thought this was interesting. Most likely a number came over in the wake of the collapse of that dynasty, a really significant event in Chinese history that is remembered by the Chinese as if it happened yesterday.
And I didnât mention the obvious point that the Qing (northerners again) was a foreign dynasty and that the Ming (âHanâ) loyalists decamped to Taiwan, Zheng Chenggong and all that.
You need to bone up on your history if you believe that bullshit.
When was the fall of the Tang?
When did Chinese start coming to Taiwan?
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Ooh ohh I got this!
Crop rotation in the 14th century was considerably more widespreadâŚ
âŚsorry wrong history text book. Um, 907. The Tang Dynasty ended in 907. The first 7 Eleven opened in Taiwan in 1979. So thatâs quite the gap.
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I am very well read in Chinese history, and I suggest you have a little more respect both for me and local people who know their history a lot better than you I would wager.
Tell me more then about your theory and how it applies to Taiwan .
I mean you could have said the Ming or the Qing but nopeâŚYou went down the Tang route.
The Tang was a great era in Chinese history itâs no surprise half the ethnic Chinese population would like to imagine an âassociationâ with them.
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I donât have a theory, but I could make one up I suppose. Perhaps the Taiwanese I spoke to were doing the same, but oral history always contains nuggets of truth. Apparently, names and grammar of Taiwanese have links to Tang China. The fall of the Tang was a cataclysmic event in Chinese history. In the general exodus of many Han Chinese to the south it is quite likely a few made it over to Taiwan. To extrapolate from these associations and say this makes you more Chinese than the Chinese in China is of course silly. But I doubt the original reportage of Tang connections is bullshit.
There are occasional stories around that Quebec-French is closer to the French language of 400 years ago than modern France-French is; Iâve heard similar things about aspects of English, but I think more in the United States than in Canada or New Zealand. I very much doubt the languages are any more authentic - a word I cringe at anyway - but little bits of vocabulary, or pronunciation, could certainly have changed at variable rates.
Of course, that doesnât make them more French than the French, but itâs reasonable that aspects of a culture can be better preserved in its new home than the place of origin: the Middle East, for example, is after all Christianityâs original heartland. (Itâs kind of a pity Dawkinsâs word âmemeâ has been taken over for Internet jokes: itâd be a good term for this.)
Not at all saying that is true for Taiwan and China.
Taiwanese people claiming distant Tang ancestry sounds like British people in the 19th century deciding they must be descendants of those good Celts or Picts, not those nefarious Angles or Saxons or, heaven forbid, Normans. Barely within the realm of possibility, sure, maybe - verifiable or anything that could be called âhistoricalâ, probably not.
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