What Does It Mean to Be Taiwanese?

Politics Taiwan Politics
81

Actually I think it’s much easier to say and accept somebody as Australian simply because Australia has and continues to be a nation populated by immigrants. It is a multicultural society, whereas Taiwan, like Japan, is monocultural with a few exceptions.

Now I’m going to go on a brief “What does being Taiwanese mean” rant.

I’m Taiwanese, I know I am. I look it and I feel it too. I’ve lived in Sydney for almost 20 years and while I also identify very strongly with Australian culture and have an Aussie passport to my name, every time I’ve come back to Taipei, I feel this weird sense of ‘home’ when the plane touches down. It’s not like I know anyone really, apart from distant relatives who I see once in a while, or that I can communicate effectively with locals beyond 7-11 transactions, or even read the menu in a restaurant, but I am Taiwanese. And when I tell people this, they believe me, which sometimes doesn’t happen when I introduce myself as Australian while I’m in Europe or the States.

Much of why I feel this way is due to the way I look. I say I look Asian or Chinese in the way white Australians are described as white, Caucasian or Western. So I don’t say that I look Taiwanese, it doesn’t make sense. And when I list what languages I speak, I say I’m conversational in Mandarin Chinese. Or just Chinese. Same thing with all English-speaking countries. I don’t say Taiwanese because it’s a different dialect and I never learnt to speak it, even though my parents do. So while I can’t say that I look or speak Taiwanese, many Taiwanese have an ethnic look (I do from my mother’s side) and definitely have a Chinese accent that is unique to Taiwan. I think these two things are helpful to have if anyone wants to identify as being Taiwanese, as well as the ability to write and read traditional Chinese characters.

To be honest, I take serious offense when people throw China and Taiwan together, in the same way many New Zealanders know they are intrinsically different from Australians, and the Irish from the UK, and Canadians from the US. The main reason is that Chinese people cannot vote or have many of the other freedoms that the Taiwanese take for granted. Freedom of the press, freedom of religion, all that stuff…it’s insulting for me to hear that China and Taiwan should be united in any way. (I’m 23 years-old and don’t pretend to speak on behalf of my generation, or other Taiwanese people).

I say good on China for becoming the World’s Manufacturing Plant - keep it up! - but thank god I’m Taiwanese.

82

Bai Tuo lah!!! It’s just because this place is small that people are less aware of it, compared to bigger countries. Do you think the average North American knows what a KTV or BingLung girl is???

Yes, these are distinguishing aspects here in Asia, but aren’t these things a result of prosperity on this island? Stupid or not, These things are big business and why? Because we, the Taiwanese have money to spend on them. Chewing that stuff is stupid–bad for your health. Going to KTVs to me, is stupid–uh. don’t have a reason why, but that’s my opinion.

Being Taiwanese means that even though Taiwan is a kind of “black-sheep” country in the world (NO RACIAL insinuation here, just English), if you’re willing to stand up and say you’re Taiwanese, than that’s it. There you go.

Japan has a lot of Western influence and the use a lot of English words in their speaking. Uh. the way they pronounce these words is different, but they don’t care. Both countries have taken on Western things, only because it was in their interest at the time. Taiwan is no different. The “dollar” is more important than any kind of identity.

Many Taiwanese people are lost in what Taiwan identity really is, so they evade this question by saying “let’s make money”. People from China account for about 15% or whatever. Now, many “Taiwanese” business bosses have taken their businesses to China. This is a very difficult situation.

If we become part of China, we will instantly become a source of revenue for their BILLIONS of poor people. And our economy isn’t good enough to support that. We’d hve 10 years of problems like West Germany. It’s not in our interest to become part of China, at least for now.

We are a unique culture, derived from “whatever”. That doesn’t matter. We’re here and we’ll stay here!!!

What really is “Taiwanese”–tough question indeed. Figure it out on your own…

83

What is Taiwanese???

A proud believer that our country is positivly different from communist China, and you don’t want that to change.

Where are the young guys willing to put their life on the line to protect this island??

-So far, me and other middle aged men with military experience have put in their willingness to do so, but I have still not seen Taiwanese willing to “fight to the death” over Taiwan.

-Taiwan need a much more agressive “this is my land” politics, both for non-military and conscripts.

What is Taiwanese?
-Some of them are Chinese - what is Chinese?
…and all the mix are here in Taiwan…

84

I read some really good, thoughful, resoureful and interesting post on here. What is it mean to be Taiwanese?? It is so hard to explain in one word or in one sentense, or even a paragraph which will have to include the history and culture.

I was born and raise in Taiwan till the age of 13, i still called myself Taiwanese to others. To me, being a Taiwanese is to love where you were born, love this land and this country, and love where you live.

i miss taiwan now… tears!

85

I hope you “middle-age milittary men” as you call yourself don’t think of “fighting to the death” as a requirement for “nationality”. It’s “What you feel is right for you”, in my opinion.

I honestly think that “military people” somehow try to expand their value. Look at the US for instance: the ONLY TIME the US has been invaded has been Pearl Harbor. WW2, Korea. Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Iraq I, Yugoslavia, Afghanist\an, Iraq 2, etc. This has nothing to do with “US freedom”, these are instances of the US “messing with other people”. And it’s not the soldiers’ fault. WHY does the US government insist on bothering other countries???

911 attacks?? I have NO IDEA who did that, but I can guarantee you, if the US government would leave other people alone, this stuff wouldn’t have happened.

US Soldiers? Joining the US military is EXCELLENT!! You’re guaranteed action. The government won’t leave people alone. US military people are excellent people (except for the torture incidents).l US military people have access to the best technology on the planet. Why don’t they put this to better use is beyond me.

NATIONALITY:
You only do what you believe in, If you are proud that your passport says :"ROC Taiwan on it, then so be it.‘’

Wherever you “call home” is “your country”. Forget passports, politics, and other details. If Taiwan is your home, just say it.

86

Bai Tuo lah!!! It’s just because this place is small that people are less aware of it, compared to bigger countries. Do you think the average North American knows what a KTV or BingLung girl is???[/quote]

I gave those examples so that readers here would readily identify that that sort of stuff is completely seperate from politics, and in no way infered that “Taiwanese” must include these in the definition. :rainbow:

This has nothing to do with this discussion, but time to brush up on your history anyways. To be invaded one must actually put troops on the ground, not just bomb it. So no, Pearl Harbour doesn’t count. The only 2 times the US has been invaded were both by Canada. War of 1812 and hmmm around the same time as well I… :astonished: think. Maybe I need to brush up as well… :blush:

87

Oooh. The killer argument. You win. :noway:

That’s why I never talk local history or politics with Taiwanese/Chinese.

BTW Yellow Cartman, don’t bother arguing American, European, or English politics anymore. You’re not white. You wouldn’t understand it.

Brian

88

Oooh. The killer argument. You win. :noway:

That’s why I never talk local history or politics with Taiwanese/Chinese.

BTW Yellow Cartman, don’t bother arguing American, European, or English politics anymore. You’re not white. You wouldn’t understand it.

Brian[/quote]

I get that all the time… and I ask people IF… IF I was… If I was Chung Hua Ming Guo would they let me speak my mind. They always say that IF you were you could… So I drop my ID Card in their faces and proclaim what I want.

It’s racist and bigoted to claim that you can’t understand something because of your race.

89

Amen, brother!!!

90

Read: “I can’t explain it to you.” That’s all that “You’re not Chinese” pseudo-argument ever really means.

91

Because Europe has always been culturally and politically behind China in development. It’s only recently they’ve come up with the EU.

Issues like common language, common currency, strong central government vs. local government were resolved quite a while ago in Chinese history.

So the real question is what took Europe so long to converge on the “China” solution while taking a divergent path.

92

I think what the “you’re not Chinese” statement means is that any scholar can learn from textbooks and do research, but actually to be Chinese means that you’re looking at the question from a subjective viewpoint, rather than an objective, and sometimes more rational one. Talking to a native Taiwanese/Chinese person about Taiwanese/Chinese history, they are bringing to the argument their family history and all the prejudices that come with it. It’s not as easy as an episode of Jeopardy, complete with numbers and facts.

I don’t think it’s that ‘they can’t be bothered to explain’, it’s more, as an outsider - no matter what kind of I.D. card you have, you could even be an overseas Chinese - how much can they convey to you of what they are feeling?

93

You’ll notice I didn’t say they couldn’t be bothered explaining, rather that they couldn’t explain. There’s a difference. I’d still rather a bit of honesty though, instead of trotting that shit out all the time. And it’s only ever with regard to Chinese (or sometimes Japanese) that it’s ever said; the essence holds true for all cultural groups, but most don’t just write off dissenting or differing opinions with “You’re not XXXX, you wouldn’t understand.”

94

[quote=“Tetsuo”]but most don’t just write off dissenting or differing opinions with “You’re not XXXX, you wouldn’t understand.”[/quote]… and fewer still would attempt to use this ephemeral and ill-defined excuse to go annex another country, or subjugate it’s people.

95

[quote=“david”]
If you look at any area where there are a decent number of expats/immigrants from Taiwan (say San Francisco) then they’ll have grouped together into some sort of Taiwanese community - that implies a sense of ‘identity’ doesn’t it? It may be the result of the political situation over the last 50 years, but it isn’t due to any overt political manipulation.[/quote]

i think this is an excellent point. taiwanese don’t really live in san francisco. except for yuppie 20-somethings, the “chinese” you’ll find in sf are long time cantonese immigrants. the taiwanese community is centered around the silicon valley area(the bubble tea is SO much better in milpitas than in sf itself).

in the los angeles area, there are several communities where one group predominates.

growing up, i can’t remember a single “chinese” person i met in my area who wasn’t taiwanese. and considering my high school was about 30% asian, that’s a lot of taiwanese people.

so if immigrants can recreate a community based around a taiwanese identity in america, i’m not sure we can just discount a taiwanese identity as a political construct. many of the taiwanese here are kmt supporters, do business in china, and STILL choose to live in taiwanese communities.

many taiwanese in china live in taiwanese communities there, as well.

96

I think this abrasive “You’re not XXXX, you wouldn’t understand” comment is just a reflection of another cultural difference. The Taiwanese can get pretty nasty when there’s a heated argument going on. We’ve all seen the infamous footage of those colourful parliamentary sessions. From my experience, it’s the same with the French. On the other hand, Australians would just laugh and brush off attempts at a political conversation, maybe even walk away…probably to the beach or jump into a pool.

97

I’ll ask one more time, please define “Chinese”. I of course agree that an internal perspective is different from an external, but one much first define what internal is.

We’re not asking what they’re feeling, but irelevant to that, what is this “chinese” you’re speaking of. Previously you alluded to ethnicity, and now your saying its not cultural or ethnic!

If you mean that one must be born in a place to understand it, I beg to differ, but at any rate Overseas Chinese (another term with huge problems) were born here so then they should understand, right??

Ah ha, so this “Chinese” does refer to culture!! Then WTF can’t SateliteTV be part of it??? He’s lived here how long, takes part in the society, speaks the language… what else would you like??

Any of this circular, constantly moving definition of “Chinese” ring any bells out there? Pretty annoying, isn’t it? Maybe if we all woke up and realized this whole “greater Chinese people” idea is absolute trash and simply a political tool of several present and past governments/empires, the world would be a much nicer place.

The “You’re not XXXX, you wouldn’t understand” argument is used by little children/ignorant pricks who can’t think up a logical reason or way to defend their statements/argument. This doesn’t constitute anything but a bigoted and ignorant response with a hint of superiority coming from someone who holds similar views. Absolute bollocks. There is no way to justify it.

There is always a way to understand that which is rational/logical, for by the definition of the words they are able to be explained.

98

You foreigners just don’t understand Chinese culture!

Or to paraphrase the former Kinmen magistrate: “We Chinese people are so much smarter than foreigners.”

99

[quote=“Freakin’ Amazing”]I’ll ask one more time, please define “Chinese”. I of course agree that an internal perspective is different from an external, but one much first define what internal is.

Ah ha, so this “Chinese” does refer to culture!! Then WTF can’t SateliteTV be part of it??? He’s lived here how long, takes part in the society, speaks the language… what else would you like??[/quote]

I wrote two paragraphs on what it means to be/feel/whatever Taiwanese. But it’s just my own rant. It’s on page 6 of this thread. See if it makes sense to you.

And that “You’re not XXXX, you wouldn’t understand” comment is a Taiwanese thing to say. That’s what I mean by a cultural thing. That to other cultures, to say that would be unacceptable, rude etc, but to Taiwanese people, it’s just bleh. Shrug. The appropriate Taiwanese response to it would be to yell back, “Maybe I’m not Chinese/Taiwanese, but you’re wang ba dan!” and to spit in their face while saying it.

100

[quote=“teacup”]
I wrote two paragraphs on what it means to be/feel/whatever Taiwanese. But it’s just my own rant. It’s on page 6 of this thread. See if it makes sense to you.

And that “You’re not XXXX, you wouldn’t understand” comment is a Taiwanese thing to say. That’s what I mean by a cultural thing. That to other cultures, to say that would be unacceptable, rude etc, but to Taiwanese people, it’s just bleh. Shrug. The appropriate Taiwanese response to it would be to yell back, “Maybe I’m not Chinese/Taiwanese, but you’re wang ba dan!” and to spit in their face while saying it.[/quote]

Your right, it is very common and by no means limited to Taiwan. But that doesn’t excuse it, and it has no place here, or anywhere for that matter. If no one lets the speaker know the stupidity of it, they will continue to think it’s a perfectly sound reason/argument.

This falls along the lines of if one cannot back up one’s opinions then one should think why one has them and consider changing them.