The pan-Blue are just following the will of the people, since the referendum on the issue was rejected, they have political capital to spend on not purchasing the arms package.
Given the time frame the USA has on delivery on the package, there is no guarantee that it would even help in a future conflict with PRC, since there military budget and ambition eclipses that of ROC at this time.
[quote=“hsiadogah”][quote=“puiwaihin”]
Just because you don’t face a threat now doesn’t mean you won’t later. A more powerful military is a real benefit, I’d say.[/quote]Then ask your pan-blue buddies to quit blocking the arms purchases, and Taiwan will have a more powerful military, it’s own.
A powerful military umbrella provided by a foreign power sounds like a nice idea, until it’s used to deny you your political and human rights.[/quote]
Don’t be stupid. I’m not in favor of reunification. Make your arguments instead of acting like a name calling child.
Let me show you how to do it:
Sure, a stronger military is an advantage. But, Taiwan can achieve that on its own without dependence on China. Considering that Taiwan doesn’t have anyone directly threatening it (other than China), it doesn’t have a need for any sort of immediate military. Taiwan can build up its own modern military that will suit its own needs quite well.
So this particular advantage is slight and certainly not worth all the negatives or the risk.
See, that’s called rational discussion. Try it some time.
The pan-Blue are just following the will of the people, since the referendum on the issue was rejected, they have political capital to spend on not purchasing the arms package.
Given the time frame the USA has on delivery on the package, there is no guarantee that it would even help in a future conflict with PRC, since there military budget and ambition eclipses that of ROC at this time.[/quote]
This discussion is discounting China as an enemy. A lot of the reason for rejecting an arms deal is fear that it will provoke an attack from China. It doesn’t make sense to buy arms when buying those arms may result in the exact situation weapons are meant to prevent or repel.
But were Taiwan independent and China no longer a threatening agressor Taiwan could then build up its own military.
[quote=“puiwaihin”]
See, that’s called rational discussion. Try it some time.[/b][/quote]Try trolling someplace else, maybe you’ll get a better quality of bite to your bait.
So, you think it’s impossible to have a genuine discussion about the benefits (or lack thereof) of China taking control of Taiwan? I think the previous posts have shown otherwise. It’s just you who can’t seem to discuss things level-headedly. When someone disagrees with something you say all you have to retort with is a personal attack.
So, since this thread is about what would be good or bad about China being in charge (without bothering with the argument of rightfulness or legality), why don’t you contribute something meaningful? Debate the merits of advantages China would give, bring up all the negative things that would come of it, or do something else constructive.
And try not to make your side look stupid by making dumb assumptions or crying “troll” whenever anyone disagrees with one of your points. 
Remember: “rational” “discussion”
:post: Note: That comment you quoted isn’t trolling. It’s what you would call a mild flaming.
I agree with a point, Taiwan doesn’t really need the increased defense that China can provide, since China is the most aggressive Asian nation in recent history having attacked or tresspassed almost all its neighbors along with having the most land disputes in the world.
However push comes to shove I think the advantage that Taiwan sets to gain from China is trade and cheap labor which it already benefits from.
The advantage of unification? Depends on the type, I don’t think Taiwan sets to gain advantage under the One Country, Two Systems policy as Hong Kong suffered a crash the very month it was transfered to China, and has suffered an economic depression for most of its period from 1997. Hong Kong has also suffered the decreasing freedom of press.
What has Hong Kong gained from such a system?
Perhaps Taiwan needs to be treated differently than Hong Kong has before we can properly dream up the advantages.
An example will be Korea, an increasingly larger number of people feel that reunification of North and South Korea may not be beneficial as there will be a huge economic gap to make up for, and the logistical issues will be significant.
It makes me wonder, if China cannot properly sustain its peasant population, how can they properly administrate the people of Taiwan?
So, do you think being made part of China might open that a little wider, or no?
I’m not sure that is due to the takeover. Hong Kong’s real estate market was skyrocketing out of control. The bubble was going to burst some time. Plus, Japan’s market crashed then as well. If I’m not mistaken, the Hang Seng index crashed after the Nikkei did (and likely as a response).
But I think you can argue that Taiwan joining China is not likely to give an economic boost and will cause market unease (and perhaps a crash).
Potential for abridgement of personal freedoms: Definitely a strong negative.
Excellent question. Answer that and that probably answers the question of what it can do for Taiwan. Anyone want to make a few statements on this one?
Well, HK is pretty much left alone. There is some intereference from Beijing in HK politics, but they don’t do anything radical. Perhaps Taiwan could be to China what Canada and Australia have been to England?
Certainly will need an adjustment with Taiwan/China. So there needs to be some strong reasons for unification to overcome these issues.
Do you think it would be worse than under Taiwan’s current government system? I think the PRC is a government making progess. I even believe they actually have the good of the people at heart, even if their policies don’t always work and their fear of losing power makes them work against the general weal far too often.
Can I ask, on the matter of the Caribbean Islands. how much does the ABC (Aruba, Barbados and Cura
[quote=“Rabbit Moon”]In one word: The Future
The U.S.A. and Japan are nations in stagnation and decline, former empires crumbling apart from internal structural defecencies and decadence. China is ascendant and replacing the imperial powers, throwing off the yoke of foreign domination and taking its proper, historical place as the center from which all of Asia radiates and pays obiescence. Taiwan can either go up with China or go down with its allies of convenience Japan and the U.S.A.
The choice is up to you, Taiwanese. Hitch your fortunes to the Past or the Future?[/quote]
People have been claiming that the United States is in decliine for decades. It wasn’t true in the 1960s and it isn’t true now.
[quote=“Rabbit Moon”]In one word: The Future
China is ascendant and replacing the imperial powers, throwing off the yoke of foreign domination and taking its proper, historical place as the center from which all of Asia radiates and pays obiescence. [/quote]
Beg pardon? China is sitting spread eagle on the floor and you wonder why asian countries wander over and take a look? Blah.
There needs to be a “full of shit” emoticom.
So, let’s try and balance out all the issues. Why not succintly list what union with China would do to harm Taiwan-- potentially or probably-- and balance that against the positives.
Can I get a couple volunteers? One to summarize the case for unification (benefits to Taiwan only) and the case against (problems presented by unification).
Shrimpcrackers wrote:
To which me say, Socialism implies democracy, of which dictatorial one-party-state PRC has none. Calling them ‘Socialist’ is meaningless, other than to reveal your own Sino-apologetic leanings.
enzo+ wrote:
[quote]
My question: whom would Taiwan need that kind of security against? The only threat comes from China. There’s no danger from Japan, US, South Korea, the Philippines … Those are all democracies, they’re no threat to Taiwan. [/quote]
To which me say, :bravo: and 
And then this silly, non-Jade Rabbit Moon wrote:
To which me say, so, China is “replacing imperial powers” so that all of Asia can pay obeisance to it? Oops! You’ve just lost any claim to being anti-imperialist.
Your posting is wrong in SO many other ways…
Say Hi to Hu for me on your way out! :raspberry: