I was having lunch with one of my Taiwanese friends. She is living in San Diego and came back to visit her parents and friends. She is mid 30’s and works for a large catering service. She was talking about the service at the restaurant and the taxi that almost hit us (I know, daily thing). Then she went into all about why she left. In the end she said she thinks the place has no future!
I had just heard this from a guy at my gym in May. He went to work in Kuala Lumpur at a major hotel. “No future, it’s stale”. After 3 years he’d had enough, “The place is easy to live in, but kind of a joke to an extent” and this was his 5th country of residence. He said many of the same things as my friend. I asked her to elaborate.
She began by saying what do we do well. We have overworked nerdy engineers that don’t know the word “girl” and it’s a semi conductor mecca. But most of the art/music students she knows that are very serious leave, many of the brightest people want to leave, the sports teams are a joke, and the Gov. just throws $$$ at it. Stadiums are 3rd rate. (A Taiwanese female that likes sport!!!). Girls that are scared of the sun, kids just study and don’t know shit when they are 18 except how to take a test, sure they play piano and violin, why…it’s so elegant. Coulda shoulda woulda had a casino, Disneyland etc. The DPP and KMT would rather fight each other than fight for the people’s rights. Also that the amount of back stabbing and cheating that goes on in the workplace is sick. She told me how much she loves her new job, and while things are far from perfect in the USA. The bosses and co-workers are generally nice and not trying to screw you over, but no night market (ha)…etc. She went off!
She’s met a ton of ex-Taiwanese in California and Arizona that say. They won’t go back because of the future of the ROC, that even with the problems in the USA they feel some peace!
I have been wondering myself how much longer to stay? What do you guys think of this viewpoint? Future? :ohreally:
If Taiwan has no future, part of the reason is because people like her think it has no future; instead of staying and trying to contribute, they all fuck off to places they’ve seen and liked on TV.
The points your friends make are all valid, and all of them can be easily discredited by someone who cared to bother with it.
People need to find reasons to justify the decisions they make, particularly when they aren’t so sure of themselves. Then they look for others to validate their assumptions, to tell them “Yes, you’re right.” Once they’ve found a few people who agree with them, their assumptions and biases become facts in their minds. It’s no big deal. I just wouldn’t take it too seriously.
I (and lots of other foreigners in Taiwan) can give you a long list of reasons why I believe that Taiwan is a superior place to live in comparison with many places around the world, but if I’m sure of my decision and don’t need validation, what would be the point?
Why would someone just leave though? Her point was kind of how do you contribute when everybody is trying to F–K you especially at work. When the boss thinks you are a slave I guess? What should people do then? Any ideas?
[quote] I (and lots of other foreigners in Taiwan) can give you a long list of reasons why I believe that Taiwan is a superior place to live in comparison with many places around the world, but if I’m sure of my decision and don’t need validation, what would be the point?[/quote]
I am a foreigner as well and agree, but she is Taiwanese and for us foreigners I think many things are different and we don’t get treated in the same manner. I’m just here to ask because she was so pissed and she is not your typical girl from Taiwan.
Taiwan’s OK. Some things are nice, some things not so good. My home country is better in some ways, and worse in others. As for the future of Taiwan? I’d guess that it will plod on pretty much the same as it is now, getting a little better each year. Most of the Taiwanese people I know seem to think the same thing. I don’t know any Taiwanese people who have chosen to leave, so can’t comment on them.
I am Taiwanese and can understand the 1st post. I lived in California and miss it a lot, but the job situation was better for me here. As for the making a difference BS! That is a long hard road and we do need to wake up and get moving in Taiwan. We have come a long way but still lag because of our complacency in some areas.
You can’t contribute when you have employers that see you as cattle and don’t want any new input or ideas, unless you go out and do something on your own. I don’t think Taiwanese all run away from Taiwan, but there are some things that are difficult to do here and they can accomplish it elsewhere, it’s just the truth. My life is pretty good and Taiwan is a good place overall, but we do need to get the ball rolling to have a better future. And anyway we have the China/Taiwan situation. That is a dark cloud over our heads other nations don’t have.
[quote=“LT”]I am Taiwanese and can understand the 1st post. I lived in California and miss it a lot, but the job situation was better for me here. As for the making a difference BS! That is a long hard road and we do need to wake up and get moving in Taiwan. We have come a long way but still lag because of our complacency in some areas.
You can’t contribute when you have employers that see you as cattle and don’t want any new input or ideas, unless you go out and do something on your own. I don’t think Taiwanese all run away from Taiwan, but there are some things that are difficult to do here and they can accomplish it elsewhere, it’s just the truth. My life is pretty good and Taiwan is a good place overall, but we do need to get the ball rolling to have a better future. And anyway we have the China/Taiwan situation. That is a dark cloud over our heads other nations don’t have. [/quote]
Taiwan will gradually move up to speed and become a fully developed nation, though there is still a lot standing in its way. The standard of living will gradually increase, though I think not as rapidly as in the past.
However, I would say I am mildly pessimistic about Taiwan’s future. Like all developed nations, it will have to deal with a rapidly ageing population – a problem especially accute here due to the low birth and immigration rates – and how a modern country can fund its amenities under such circumstances.
More importantly though, like other developed nations, Taiwan will also have to avoid the erosion of its industrial base to countries that can produce things cheaper – one thing about earning more is that, to a certain extent, your income is less secure because it can be outsourced. One way to avoid that is to own the factories in cheaper places and administer them from here. I don’t know how well that could work. Another is to get into the next big industries before poorer countries have the capabilities to do so. I don’t think Taiwan is well positioned in that respect because its education system is not geared towards creativity or critical thinking. If I had kids, I’d be very worried about sending them through any level of the education system here, be it from kindergarten to university. There are huge cultural obstacles to reforming the education system here, and I fear that the changes that need to happen will occur at a glacial pace at best and Taiwan will wake up and find itself at the back of the pack one day.
None of this is helped by all the Taiwanese hedging their bets with U.S. greencards and/or trying to milk the system for as much as they can while they can.
It won’t. As manufacturing and high tech continues to move offshore and the country becomes ever-more reliant on remittances from overseas, it’ll become more and more irrelevant until its regarded as the basket case of Asia, and Taiwanese women will once again be back working as amahs, except in Cambodia and Laos rather than the Philippines.
sandman: I was trying not to be too cynical, though perhaps you are correct. Still, the health system in this country is pretty good, they have MRTs and the architecture coming out now is not nearly as horrid as it has been. There’s also a gradual environmental awareness. I think in some ways they are making progress.
All the points the OP states are valid and accurate, unfortunately.
But having said that, I chose to go from living in California to come live in Taiwan even with the knowledge that I would have to join the Taiwanese army.
No offense to the OP, but I think that your friends’ complaints are really silly. They are rather trivial compared to what some of us face in our countries.
We have to leave our countries because there are no jobs, because in corrupt systems you have to pay someone to do anything from a simple letter of certification up to find who killed your uncle. We have to leave because of political persecution, because fellow journalists are killed and/or dissappear, and even bloggers are threatened. We leave because our money is not safe in the bank, the banks take no responsibility and if we complain they send people over to take care of us -and I don’t mean listen to us. All this while our countries embrace an aura of respectability and why not, democracy, because we hold elections and have “free” trade. The truth is we have monopolies of such scale that you can’t set a lemonade stand without paying off a government supported mafia. All the while, you can die anyday as medical care is stalled, obsolete and also burdened by corruption, or run over/shot down by lawless drivers in lawless roads.
No matter what they say, Taiwan still has a lot of freedom and opportunities. For how long? That depends on its people. I wish the youger generations would appreciate what they have, fight for it, and furthermore, realize what could be the outcome if they do not demand that rule of law be respected, and cherish it for the next generations.
Taiwan will always be right for some people and not for others. 15 years ago, if you were a photogenic ABC with good language skills, a TV career could be fairly easily come by. Enter CSB, and those opportunities dried up. For foreign laborers, Taiwan is still a land of opportunity. For many expats working in China, Taiwan is the best place to raise their family. For English teachers, the market has definitely contracted, but there are many, many teachers still doing well for themselves here. And from all accounts, things ain’t so hot right now in the US or Canada, either!
Taiwan could do well for years cause of cheap manufacturing. They can’t compete for that much longer
Unfortunately alot of people are too busy adorning their cars with EU number plates, sending their kids overseas to be educated, or trying to get/making enough money to escape (or to buy a second passport).
I do not think people think long term, except perhaps for accepting that Taiwan will be a tributary state of China. Then its a question of how much you can milk this
They have a good health system but for how long. The NHI is borrowing money from the banks to sustain it
People have little desire to improve the place beyond what personally benefits them
I’ve been hearing the same kinds of complaints over the past 20 years. I hear this kind of badmouthing Taiwan was far worse in the 1970s and 1980s.
Several of the earlier posters have a valid complaint about poor working condition though. I think that there is a whole generation of people in Taiwan who have been educated to work in a knowledge and service economy. Unfortunately, that economy has never really emeregd in Taiwan, which continues to be dominated by manufacturing and the cost-down, military-style of management that prevails there and often seeps over into other sectors. That in large part has been caused by the distorting effects of the opening to China. An older generation of taiwanese businesspeople see no reason to change because they can continue to make money the old fashioned way in China.
MM, I don’t thing job prospects in TV for telegenic ABCs dried up because of CSB. As recently as a decade ago, people though owning a TV station was a license to print money as it had been during the monoploy era. After 50 channels came on the air, no one has been able to figure out how to make money off those telegenic ABCs (with a few exceptions). The same is true of English-language programming. Hence the limited job prospects in an industry where most are losing their shirts.
Taiwan will always have jobs for ambitious, exceptional people. Most places in the capitalist world will. And with the boomers now starting to retire, these international people will be in demand in many countries despite the economic slowdown and cyclical nature of the economy. Countries will have to offer more and more to attract this top talent.
Taiwan’s shift from a manufacturing country to a service-based one and from a ODM manufacturer to one that will need R&D and innovation to survive will be painful for a lot of people that fail to keep themselves or their companies at the cutting edge. But it ain’t limited to Taiwan as people in Windsor, Canada, or Detroit in the US are also feeling the pain caused by being complacent and unproductive for so many years. Many of these cities are heavily socialist or Democratic BTW .
However, for so many years, Taiwan was at the cutting edge of many industries. First as a maker of cheap toys and then to quality computers/laptops etc. If it loses this competetive advantage to the Mainland or other places, it will impact the mediocrity talent that the country also attracts. The people that come for an adventure in their 20s and don’t necessarily take their job too seriously will feel this IMHO. A less thriving middle class won’t be able to spend money on educational services. This means they won’t be necessary attracting or hiring as many Joe Basket Weaving Grads. Taiwan is already losing this competetiveness as many of the best educators know greener pastures are available in the UAE or international schools. There are exceptional teachers as well, many of whom post on this board, and they’ll have no problems. We’re talking about the large number of average ones.
Chewy, before this kind of sloppy usage becomes entrenched in the boards, clarify your use of the phrase The Mainland (especially with a capital M): you do mean that separate nation known as China or the PRC across the Taiwan Strait, don’t you? or do you think that there is one and only one China and it is temporarily divided into two parts? Anti-splittist!
why then use Mainland, in the same sense that the KMT has taught the populace, especially those of Chinese descent, to refer to China as Da Lu, unless you support “reunification”?
.