Yea actually there is a point…
Would you openly admit that your parents were child abusers as well?
I wouldn’t consider them child abusers. They were just doing it out of love and making sure you learned your lesson.
But according to you guys, anyone who strikes a child is a child abuser.
You made that perfectly clear earlier…
Hitting, spanking etc out of love is a bit like the proverbial fucking for virginity.
It’d be more correct to say that hitting was done out of ignorance. Parents hadn’t learned that it isn’t effective and in fact, is quite likely harmful. However we now have a few decades of knowledge that shows how ineffective and abusive it is, and anyone who still practices it really has no excuse.
Doing it out of love… :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
[quote=“cfimages”]Hitting, spanking etc out of love is a bit like the proverbial fucking for virginity.
It’d be more correct to say that hitting was done out of ignorance. Parents hadn’t learned that it isn’t effective and in fact, is quite likely harmful. However we now have a few decades of knowledge that shows how ineffective and abusive it is, and anyone who still practices it really has no excuse.
Doing it out of love… :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:[/quote]
Hmm I have no idea what you mean by “proverbial fucking for virginity”.
Sorry, I’m not as edumacated as you, so you’re gonna have to dumb it down for me.
But I don’t know why you are chiming in though…
You have NEVER felt the burning sensation of a good old fashioned ass whooping.
So you really have no idea what we’re talking about here.
Everything you think you know about beatings from watching tv or movies is not the same thing as actually getting smacked across the face.
Maybe ask your mother to slap you a few times (out of love, of course) and then…you have my permission to offer your input.
[quote=“Leftywang81”][quote=“cfimages”]
You have NEVER felt the burning sensation of a good old fashioned ass whooping.
So you really have no idea what we’re talking about here.
Everything you think you know about beatings from watching tv or movies is not the same thing as actually getting smacked across the face.
Maybe ask your mother to slap you a few times (out of love, of course) and then…you have my permission to offer your input.[/quote][/quote]
Are you missing all the spanking that you have received from your parents ? Just pay some gal/whore in Taiwan to spank you.
I was raised by my grandma (very old grandma) and she has never spanked me. NEVER. I love her so much. She knew how to parent without lifting her hand to smack/slap me. Taiwan peoples don’t have any patience, so spanking is the quickest way to “solve” the problem, they don’t even need to spend time and reason with the child (they think that lots of spanking will smart the kid). Local men also spank their wives to end a argument. This is nothing to be proud about.
So, you had a traditional taiwanese childhood and were frequently spanked by your parents, GOOD FOR YOU…
[quote=“Leftywang81”][quote=“Petrichor”]
I was hit by my mother. Not frequently, but the time I recall she walloped my bare behind with the back of hairbrush. Another time she slapped my 3 year old sister full across the face for accidentally bumping a Scrabble board, upsetting the tiles. I still don’t know if I would call her a child abuser, though. Unless you include neglect as a definition of abuse, in which case by that definition she was abusive.
Your original question was, what is child abuse, not what is a child abuser. I would call someone a child abuser who made a habit of such things. But these are grey areas. You seem to want black and white answers. Human behaviour isn’t so neatly categorised.[/quote]
According to many, if not all, if anyone inflicts any kind of physical harm to a child, that person is considered a “child abuser”. That was why I was asking if anyone here had been physically punished by their parents when they were younger. Yes, I agree that just because you were hit by your mother a few times or she slapped your 3 year old sister in the face would not qualify her as a child abuser, its apparent that not all members here agree with you and I. To some, yelling and scolding a child would be verbal child abuse. But isn’t by definition a person who physically abuses a child called a child abuser? And so the question is what constitutes as child abuse. To many in here, simply spanking a child or cracking the belt would be enough to qualify as child abuse.[/quote]
I think you’re setting up a strawman here. I just searched the term ‘abuser’ on this thread and only Deuce Dropper said, in one post, that AP is a child abuser. IIRC, all the other posters were arguing it was abuse. None of us knows what else he’s done, but IF he regularly physically hurts his child, he’s a child abuser. Other comments have agreed that parents routinely hitting their child are abusive, and I would agree.
I have a question for you. If hitting children is acceptable, is it okay to hit strangers’ children? And when does hitting your child become unacceptable? More than once a week? When it leaves a mark? When it hurts enough to make the child cry? When they involuntarily flinch when you raise your hand? Where do you draw the line?
[quote=“Leftywang81”]Yea actually there is a point…
Would you openly admit that your parents were child abusers as well?
I wouldn’t consider them child abusers. They were just doing it out of love and making sure you learned your lesson.
But according to you guys, anyone who strikes a child is a child abuser.
You made that perfectly clear earlier…[/quote]
OK, kid, we’re done.
Trying to discuss anything with you is like trying to play catch with a sea cucumber.
I hope you and superking are very happy together.
[quote=“Leftywang81”]
So you DO recognize that physical punishment was acceptable back then in a different era, a different generation than today’s newer generation parents…[/quote]
I never DIDN’T recognize it. It was definitely more acceptable then, as it is more acceptable here now than it is in other places, and probably less so than some others. I won’t ask for the point 
[quote=“Leftywang81”]
But I don’t know why you are chiming in though…
You have NEVER felt the burning sensation of a good old fashioned ass whooping.
…
Maybe ask your mother to slap you a few times (out of love, of course) and then…you have my permission to offer your input.[/quote]
So we can look forward to not hearing your opinions about homosexuality anymore? Or can’t we
Seriously, Lefty, if you hit people, you’re a bullying cunt. I’ve hit many people in my life and I am eternally ashamed.
Hit little kids? You’re a fucking bully. Nothing redeeming about that at all. Go and beg for forgiveness. You’re a cunt and a bully. 
I mean that in the generic sense. Nothing personal.
I wake up every morning to the sound of kids crying and screaming in the apartment across the lane. A boy about 4 years old and a girl not old enough to walk. First the boy screams and cries to his mother not to be left there with his grandmother. Then the boy hurts his sister and she starts crying. Then the grandmother tortures the boy and he cries, screams and begs her to stop.
The cycle of violence recurs every day at 7:00.
[quote=“cfimages”]Hitting, spanking etc out of love is a bit like the proverbial fucking for virginity.
It’d be more correct to say that hitting was done out of ignorance. Parents hadn’t learned that it isn’t effective and in fact, is quite likely harmful. However we now have a few decades of knowledge that shows how ineffective and abusive it is, and anyone who still practices it really has no excuse.
Doing it out of love… :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:[/quote]
the old adage was spare the love and spoil the child.
I got slapped a bit when a kid, only by one parent mind you, who now regrets it. It was the done thing , but it doesn’t mean it was the right thing even then.
Science also indicates that physical
punishment doesn’t work anyway.
[quote=“Petrichor”]
I think you’re setting up a strawman here. I just searched the term ‘abuser’ on this thread and only Deuce Dropper said, in one post, that AP is a child abuser. IIRC, all the other posters were arguing it was abuse. None of us knows what else he’s done, but IF he regularly physically hurts his child, he’s a child abuser. Other comments have agreed that parents routinely hitting their child are abusive, and I would agree.
I have a question for you. If hitting children is acceptable, is it okay to hit strangers’ children? And when does hitting your child become unacceptable? More than once a week? When it leaves a mark? When it hurts enough to make the child cry? When they involuntarily flinch when you raise your hand? Where do you draw the line?[/quote]
First of all. “Hitting” makes it sound like you are beating them for no reason. We’re talking about physical punishment to teach the children a lesson. Obviously I am not okay with hitting or punishing children for no apparent reason. I can’t say I was ever smacked or punished for doing nothing wrong. It was always to teach me a lesson and to let me know that if I were to repeat the same mistake, I would get the backhand or the belt. Is it okay to hit strangers’ children? Absolutely NOT. Only parents/grandparents (and teachers if given permission by the parents) should be allowed to physically punish their own children. I do not remember my aunts or uncles ever handing any physical punishment to me or my brother. More than once a week? Does it matter? When it leaves a mark? They usually result in marks and bruises. When it hurts enough to make the child cry? The children often ends up crying. Some children start crying before you even make contact. Some children start crying when you yell at them. When they involuntarily flinch when you raise your hand? Thats recognizing that the punishment is coming and instilling fear of making the same mistake. But to answer your main question. No, I would never “hit” a stranger’s kid. Its not my responsibility to teach someone else’s children right from wrong. Thats the parent’s responsibility.
[quote=“Rocket”]
OK, kid, we’re done.
Trying to discuss anything with you is like trying to play catch with a sea cucumber.
I hope you and superking are very happy together.
[/quote]
Its okay Rocket. You’ll be back.
I find it hard to believe a newcomer like myself can keep a Forumosa vet like yourself quiet for long.
I will miss your meaningless sarcastic 1-liners and memes though…
[quote=“Charlie Phillips”]I wake up every morning to the sound of kids crying and screaming in the apartment across the lane. A boy about 4 years old and a girl not old enough to walk. First the boy screams and cries to his mother not to be left there with his grandmother. Then the boy hurts his sister and she starts crying. Then the grandmother tortures the boy and he cries, screams and begs her to stop.
The cycle of violence recurs every day at 7:00.[/quote]
Well if you really feel so strongly against it, you should do something about it.
I would love to hear how that goes for you…
But you might have a case. You can complain that the children are crying too loud and it wakes you up in the morning.
[quote=“Leftywang81”][quote=“Petrichor”]
I think you’re setting up a strawman here. I just searched the term ‘abuser’ on this thread and only Deuce Dropper said, in one post, that AP is a child abuser. IIRC, all the other posters were arguing it was abuse. None of us knows what else he’s done, but IF he regularly physically hurts his child, he’s a child abuser. Other comments have agreed that parents routinely hitting their child are abusive, and I would agree.
I have a question for you. If hitting children is acceptable, is it okay to hit strangers’ children? And when does hitting your child become unacceptable? More than once a week? When it leaves a mark? When it hurts enough to make the child cry? When they involuntarily flinch when you raise your hand? Where do you draw the line?[/quote]
First of all. “Hitting” makes it sound like you are beating them for no reason. We’re talking about physical punishment to teach the children a lesson. Obviously I am not okay with hitting or punishing children for no apparent reason. I can’t say I was ever smacked or punished for doing nothing wrong. It was always to teach me a lesson and to let me know that if I were to repeat the same mistake, I would get the backhand or the belt. Is it okay to hit strangers’ children? Absolutely NOT. Only parents/grandparents (and teachers if given permission by the parents) should be allowed to physically punish their own children. I do not remember my aunts or uncles ever handing any physical punishment to me or my brother. More than once a week? Does it matter? When it leaves a mark? They usually result in marks and bruises. When it hurts enough to make the child cry? The children often ends up crying. Some children start crying before you even make contact. Some children start crying when you yell at them. When they involuntarily flinch when you raise your hand? Thats recognizing that the punishment is coming and instilling fear of making the same mistake. But to answer your main question. No, I would never “hit” a stranger’s kid. Its not my responsibility to teach someone else’s children right from wrong. Thats the parent’s responsibility.[/quote]
Hitting accurately describes what’s happening. Other words are euphemisms to justify the violence. My main question to you was, where do you draw the line? My sister was hit because she stumbled, as 3 year olds frequently do, but you don’t seem to think that was abusive behaviour. Do parents have carte blanche to hit their children as they see fit, as long as they can justify it to themselves? I’ll add another question - given that so many studies show that hitting is ineffective and often counterproductive, and that it’s perfectly possible to raise children well without hitting them, why should we endorse this behaviour nowadays?
[quote=“Petrichor”][quote=“Leftywang81”][quote=“Petrichor”]
I think you’re setting up a strawman here. I just searched the term ‘abuser’ on this thread and only Deuce Dropper said, in one post, that AP is a child abuser. IIRC, all the other posters were arguing it was abuse. None of us knows what else he’s done, but IF he regularly physically hurts his child, he’s a child abuser. Other comments have agreed that parents routinely hitting their child are abusive, and I would agree.
I have a question for you. If hitting children is acceptable, is it okay to hit strangers’ children? And when does hitting your child become unacceptable? More than once a week? When it leaves a mark? When it hurts enough to make the child cry? When they involuntarily flinch when you raise your hand? Where do you draw the line?[/quote]
First of all. “Hitting” makes it sound like you are beating them for no reason. We’re talking about physical punishment to teach the children a lesson. Obviously I am not okay with hitting or punishing children for no apparent reason. I can’t say I was ever smacked or punished for doing nothing wrong. It was always to teach me a lesson and to let me know that if I were to repeat the same mistake, I would get the backhand or the belt. Is it okay to hit strangers’ children? Absolutely NOT. Only parents/grandparents (and teachers if given permission by the parents) should be allowed to physically punish their own children. I do not remember my aunts or uncles ever handing any physical punishment to me or my brother. More than once a week? Does it matter? When it leaves a mark? They usually result in marks and bruises. When it hurts enough to make the child cry? The children often ends up crying. Some children start crying before you even make contact. Some children start crying when you yell at them. When they involuntarily flinch when you raise your hand? Thats recognizing that the punishment is coming and instilling fear of making the same mistake. But to answer your main question. No, I would never “hit” a stranger’s kid. Its not my responsibility to teach someone else’s children right from wrong. Thats the parent’s responsibility.[/quote]
Hitting accurately describes what’s happening. Other words are euphemisms to justify the violence. My main question to you was, where do you draw the line? My sister was hit because she stumbled, as 3 year olds frequently do, but you don’t seem to think that was abusive behaviour. Do parents have carte blanche to hit their children as they see fit, as long as they can justify it to themselves? I’ll add another question - given that so many studies show that hitting is ineffective and often counterproductive, and that it’s perfectly possible to raise children well without hitting them, why should we endorse this behaviour nowadays?[/quote]
Yes, of course there are lines that should not be crossed. And as I stated earlier, I agree with you guys that AP crossed that line judging from the pictures that were provided. I will add that I have been whacked in the past where I have been bruised and in some cases, the yard stick and belt even drew blood. But AP’s son was 4 years old. That is over the top and even he admitted he got carried away. Hitting, to me means striking someone or something with a closed fit. Slapping would be a more accurate word to describe common physical punishment most of us have endured in the past, wouldn’t you agree? I don’t believe my dad has ever “hit” me with a closed fist. As far as crossing the line, that is for the parent to decide. Obviously, if you send the child to the hospital or the child needs medical attention, I think even individuals who are okay with physical punishment would call that excessive. But we have members in here saying that a simple spanking would be considered child abuse. Yelling really loudly and scolding them can also cause mental problems down the line.
Yes, I agree that its perfectly possible to raise children well without hitting them. Some people like cfimage have already mentioned they have NEVER been struck or physically punished by their parents or whoever raised them, and they seem to have turned out fine. Like I said, what works for one person, may not necessarily work for the next person. I never said we should all beat our children. I was simply saying that while YOU may not advocate physical punishment, it is a little unfair to call your neighbor a child abuser just because they still feel like they need to use physical punishment to teach their own children. The point was made that if anyone ever struck their kids, they would be labeled a child abuser. I asked if they felt Taiwanese parents who still physically punished their kids were child abusers and they said Yes. So I asked them whether or not they were ever struck or physically punished when they were younger by their parents. While many refused to answer knowing the point I was trying to make, some ultimately admitted that yes they were physically punished as well when they were younger. So by their very own definition, that would make their own parents “child abusers”. Many of them were quick to label Taiwanese parents who physically punished their kids as child abusers, but they would not pass the same label to their own parents who did exactly the same thing. I found that interesting.
ITT: One lone guy tries to defend violence against children.
This from the guy who advocates “responsible, constructive” ways to commit violence against children. Well, he was near a light socket, so it’s OK to hit him. She got too close to the stove, so it’s OK to hit her. Taiwan is so small and crowded, that makes violence against children OK! It wouldn’t fly in the Netherlands, one of the smallest and most crowded countries in the world, but Taiwan is special.
Leftywang isn’t alone; he’s got you.
This from the guy who advocates “responsible, constructive” ways to commit violence against children. Well, he was near a light socket, so it’s OK to hit him. She got too close to the stove, so it’s OK to hit her. Taiwan is so small and crowded, that makes violence against children OK! It wouldn’t fly in the Netherlands, one of the smallest and most crowded countries in the world, but Taiwan is special.
Leftywang isn’t alone; he’s got you.[/quote]
You should really reread what I wrote, and remember, I’m the guy who is against hitting mosquitoes cockroaches (and I don’t even find them very cute… maybe a little, but not very).
Which person are you referring to, the adult striking the child, or the child being struck? As Monk would say, here’s the thing. In several nations, all forms of corporal punishment are banned, in some cases have been for decades. Millions and millions of children have been raised successfully without being hit by their parents. And that’s going to include all personality types, energy levels, grades of stubbornness, learning disabilities, etc. This isn’t just a matter of anecdotal information about this child or that child. Entire nations manage to raise children without using pain as punishment. It’s not just some isolated northern European countries. Corporal punishment is entirely banned Venezuela, Kenya, Turkmenistan, Israel, and many others. Everywhere from Latin America to Europe to Africa to Asia. There are now 40 countries with these bans in place.
There is simply no reason to ever strike a child.