Perceived cost. Staff turnover is actually expensive, but the concept doesn’t translate well here.
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Honestly though, I think they genuinely don’t see turnover as a cost. The accountant is going to work from 8am to 9pm everyday anyway, so why does it matter if there’s a little more chasing down bank account info and calling the NHI? And I’ve never worked in a school that has done more than hand me my keys and tell me where to store my stuff (or not tell me where I can store my stuff…), so no one is really taking time from their work to train anyone…
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Agreed, but they’re wrong. People with organizational knowledge picked up over time are more valuable. Hiring new people unnecessarily means management is wasting time on interviews and paperwork.
Replace bad hires, sure. But hire and retain good employees as a baseline.
Yeah they really don’t understand this. They see no reason to retain employees. And someone just posted a job for 60k/month on forumosa. So it’s just a race to the bottom. I thought 80k was terrible pay in 2024! But to the school that listed a job for 60k, they see this as savings of 20k/month, not a cost of having to advertise and interview constantly.
To anyone digging around this site trying to get a feel for the teaching job market in Taiwan, unless you literally just graduated from a fake university with a degree in underwater basket weaving, please don’t take a job for less than 70k/month. Foreign teachers are “so needed!” but anyone taking a salary lower than that is only destroying the market for moderately competent teachers. (Fulbright ETAs, I’m sure you’re heading to TW soon. Doesn’t matter how pretty you think it’ll make your resume look, 40k/month is effectively minimum wage for service workers now. At minimum, you have a degree from a moderately decent university in the US. You can do so much better)
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Very true. But that’s the issue. Many places are quick buck style, not long term, multi generational company type think. This isn’t limited to the education industry.
The irony is that the education folks are completely ignorant about education. In this case math, economy and business. It’s pretty wild that we send our children to people that can barely tie their own shoe laces.
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Perhaps here “organizational” or “institutional knowledge” are not viewed as valuable but perhaps the opposite. At a certain point, you are able to see through all the bullshit and gaslighting. And working in Taiwan depends highly on gaslighting.
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That’s not specific to this or that organization, it’s something that can apply pretty much across the island in every sector
But definitely, when I was FOB I didn’t see it as I do now, as you called it
It does help to explain those companies that are always advertising. It is in their best interest to get people that haven’t figured it out yet
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Well, now that I think of it a little more, I think that the organizational or institutional knowledge is really not valued that much. Most people here are expected to just “stay in their lane” and just stick to the very narrow knowledge and responsibilities of their particular position. Seeking knowledge outside of your assigned role is really not encouraged and perhaps even seen as threatening in many cases. The heirarchy is rigid and someone seeking a bigger picture of how things operate and connect is seen as trying to rise above their station. Their peers will resent them and see them as making them look bad while their superiors might see them as a threat to their position. It’s not as meritocratic as the West and social mobility is generally lower. Plus from what I have seen and experienced, workers in Taiwan try to have as little responsibility as possible and are generally not inquisitive. Gaining knowledge of the institution as a whole doesn’t seem to be that valuable because then you might be responsible for more things and also people here seem to lack the ability to see the big picture.
I suppose the other answer to my original question is that constantly rotating through new hires also keeps wages down as you can always pay a less experienced person less money. And if you do gain more knowledge of the institution, there’s still a very low chance that it translates into anything tangible such as more money.
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And does anyone know where good Taiwanese teaching jobs can be found? Are they only available if you have boots on the ground in Taiwan?
Every job I have seen on Tealit or Daves ESL are from the same cram schools, all of which offer between 650-700 per hour with almost no perks (especially in relation to other countries). No accommodation nor accommodation allowance, no flight money, laughable completion bonus ($300).
It truly amazes me how Taiwan manages to attract teachers considering its crazy brother across the straight pays twice the wages, includes a house, and has a lover cost of living. South Korea also offer better incentives.
It’s an interesting discussion
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I was never paid anywhere near to 80k. I got 70k once.
Definitely not valued, and perhaps can have little value. Especially when that knowledge is used to get away with doing less. But some FOB newbie who needs help with everything uses more resources than someone who can go about their work and life independently. Compounded, not alleviated, by high turnover
Again, a revolving door of noobs doesn’t make this problem go away. Exacerbates, it does
Sure, because the management encourages this
Something as simple as knowing how the pay system works, or who to talk to about this pr that thing, is different
Sure, it’s the only way the management here seems to understand. Low cost. That’s why there’s a revolving door of global south labor force nationalities. The chip sector is no different. Taiwanese too expensive? Bring in Thais. Thais too expensive? Philippines. Can’t get enough good cheap Pinoys? Indians incoming!
As an employee, no, that’s not how it works in Taiwan.
But the fact remains, high turnover is more costly. Healthy turnover cuts the fat and brings in fresh blood. Turnover as the business model when the teachers are essentially the product is bad business sense.
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China pays more than Taiwan now ?
How the mighty have fallen.
Most parents hate that , but I get the business logic of it.
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It helps that the market is shrinking fairly rapidly. It also helps that many cram schools will take illegal workers. I’ve mentioned most of the cram school teachers I know are students: Taiwanese students don’t need work permits, foreign students can easily get 20 hour work permits regardless of job. Add on the lifers who are settled in from the good old days, and those who are otherwise tied here for relationship reasons, and there need not be a lot of new and legally qualified people coming in.
There was also the much discussed policy shift a few years ago to bring in Philippinos who had the English and university paper to fill in slots that are no longer competitive for the previously preferred nationalities. That’s Taiwan, don’t pay more just look elsewhere. Employees are just interchangeable cogs, the only difference is some of the serfs are inconvenient but they are easily replaced by pretty much any butt in the seat
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I’m sure the parents hate it when a good or at least favorite teacher goes, but if they’re not taking their money elsewhere then nothing will change
I know one Cram school where at least 50% of its native English speakers are Spanish or Brazilian. They’re all handsome or pretty of course.
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Gosh, I never expected such a vigorous discussion. A lot of good points have been made. Personally, I never took teaching English seriously, insofar as I never take anything seriously. Well, in some ways I do take it seriously. Actually I have a Master’s in education because I thought a teacher should learn about education at the theoretical level. But I have always known that teachers will be hired and judged in Taiwan on the wrong criteria–like on your photo, or some such idiotic thing. You are just another foreigner, and anyone will do. It may be possible to find a gig that works well for you, so don’t give up. About Tealit, I seriously doubt the bulk of those schools advertising are any good. In my experience, if an employer here doesn’t contact you right away and offer you the job within 48 hours then you are wasting your time. You get a job simply due to timing…At least three of those employers who advertise non-stop on Tealit are a real joke.
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I was offered 23,000 rmb a month after tax for a bog standard training school gig in Qingdao last week. That’s $3100.
Any Taiwan job I can find online is 700 ntd per hour, guaranteed 20 hours. So that’s 80 hours a month (700 x 80 = 56,000), taxed at 18% comes to 45,920 ntd. So $1400.
Neither of these 2 jobs include housing, but rent in China is cheaper, living costs are cheaper and there is $3000 of yearly bonuses included as opposed to $300 in Taiwan.
When you get to the “good” teaching jobs in both countries I’m sure the gap in pay becomes less so, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Taiwan pays more, but at the entry level Taiwan teaching positions are laughably underpaid.
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If China weren’t a totalitarian hell-hole I’d be tempted to move there. Have a friend who is working a college job. Pay is not bad, free accommodation, tons of free time…compare that to slavery full-time jobs here.
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The UK is around 8:50 to 3:20 at the moment. The days were shorter in the past but the government asked all the schools to provide 6.5 hours a day. Gates only open 10 mins before the day starts.
Concerning school holidays, i asked one school a question and someone in the office emailed me back saying no teaching staff will be there until September 2nd (afternoon) for a training day. The term starts on Sept 3rd.
The situation in Taiwan isnt going to get better. What keeps you here?