What is the Taiwanese Music Scene?!? Oxymoron?

Arts & Sciences Arts & Entertainment
1

Just returned from the USA and Canada and 2 friends that major in music asked what the scene was like here (clubs, singers, etc), they may come to check it out. To be honest it was hard for me to discribe. I never thought about it, because it just seems like Taiwan is pretty flat when it comes to music. I’ve traveled now to 17 different countries and I still think this is the least musically interested place I can think of. 70% of amateur musicians seem to play piano or violin and 80% of the music seems to be all melody/soft songs. Very few beats. Only about 1 of 10 Taiwanese I know even dances. There was a magazine article our business seminar that we reviewed last week.

It mentioned Bob Marley, Duke Ellington, David Bowie, Johnny Cash, Aretha Franklin and The Who. Pretty diverse and all very famous, 33 students. 2 had heard of The Who. 1 has heard of Aretha Frankin. The rest a big zero! The group aged 19-56. I know that they are all western artists, but c’mon. When I tought in Japan in 97-98, I was blown away by their intense international musical knowledge.

Maybe I’m reaching too much? Any comments or agree-disagree?

2

In Taiwan the kids were programmed at an early age. The parents demanded academic excellence and tolerates nothing less than a 100. So kids spend all their time trying to get a good grade. Some kids do well because they can understand the materials and others don’t do well despite hours and hours of studies because the material is impossible to understand. As you can see most of the have no time to develop any hobbies and most of them just play video games on their free time to get away from the schoolwork. Besides most parents here are not interested in musical or artistic talents because they feel it makes them no money (rich kid means more payback for parents…) and parents think that better grade means better job. So the ones who learn music plays piano because its probably a part of their curriculum. I hang out at a place that has a piano and almost everyone who plays it plays the SAME thing over and over again. I mean it’s either Canon in D (nothing against it but I hate hearing the same music again and again) or Beetoven’s or the garbage song, or a pop song of some kind. I never hear anyone play the blues for some reason.

3

Japan’s a lot bigger than Taiwan, so my first thought is there are a lot more venues for local acts to do their stuff. On an international level, Taiwan is pretty small and only attracts bigger acts that can play Taipei for a night and then head off elsewhere…hardly an incentive for smaller acts to come over, sadly. There is a scene, but it’s small. Groups like Neon and many others have been slugging it out here for years, but how often can you do the Taipei, Taichung, Kaohshiung circuit without wearing yourself thin?

I was out around the Taipei Arena last night and there sure was a scene that night. Wang Lee Hom had a show and the kids were out in full force.

4

Hmmm, I don’t think it is the size. A lot of smaller countries love music and get acts to come over because the local people love music. I’ve heard the size thing in regards to other stuff like sports and arts etc. England is not huge and is an amazing musical place, I believe the O.P. has the name Bob Marley in it. Jamaica is not big and quite musical.

I think rahimiiii got it right. It’s not seen as providing any real value, so it’s not developed much. Wang Lee Hom is an exception and not to well known internationally. The arts suffer a bit in Taiwan, yet I meet people with artistic potential that goes unrealized.

5

Me too :howyoudoin:

6

A lot of people explain that Taiwan had no music or art scene because of size but I felt it wasn’t size… I think it’s due to the emphasis on the wrong thing and most traditional Chinese/Taiwanese parents don’t support or develop kid’s hobbies into any potential because they don’t see any value in anything that isn’t academic. My parents were like that unfortunately so I get slammed a lot because I wasn’t “doing what it takes to become successful” while putting a lot of money towards learning how to build guitars.

7

I think there’s some truth in that, but it doesn’t explain why Japan has a large and well developed music/art scene despite many similarities in cultural heritage.
Maybe someone who has more experience of Japan can help explain. I am sure size has something to do with it-a larger market makes such endeavours more viable.

8

Within in the “Chinese world” and greater Asia in general, Taiwan is considered a musical powerhouse. Artists such as Zhou Jielun (Jay Chou or something like that), Wubai and others that I cannot think of at the moment are ubiquitous in China and Singapore.

When in the “Chinese world”, it is not necessarily helpful to define its music scene by “international standards”.

Japan is different from Taiwan in many ways, partly because they have been connected the international community for a longer period of time and to some degree because there is more money there. [b]Perhaps another reason is that the Japanese are more isolated culturally – that is, they don’t share transnational cultural connectedness – so they tend to project themselves out to the world and “Japanize” non-Japanese things more frequently than the Taiwanese, who have a massive market and source of influence coming from China – including Hong Kong – and Singapore. This is an interesting direction. I’m a bit out of it now, but I will think more later.

(Not to say that Taiwan has not been influenced by Japanese culture and western culture; it obviously has.)

9

I think the main reasons why Taiwan’s music scene appears non-existent are: time (history), size, and demographic…

  • People raised the example of Japan – they indeed seem to be a country of music lovers, with cosmopolitan tastes (Wasn’t John Coltrane already playing there in the 60s?)…I think this is b/c they’ve had the time and access – they’ve been cultivating tastes and started embracing western culture earlier than Taiwanese, especially since after WWII

  • I think in Taiwan, it’s easy to forget, martial law was only lifted in late 80s, which in general affects cultural access/openness. Taiwanese are open-minded but haven’t had chance to explore

  • Taiwan seems to have small scenes that sprout up but fade away before they really mature – either that or bands hit a ceiling – I think of “classic” indie bands from 90s/early 00s – Backquarter, Clippers, Ladybug, Sticky Rice – some of are still around, but they lost the excitement. As for mainstream, I’m not a fan of Mandopop, but those artists fade away fast, too.

  • to the OP – I think it’s hard to judge a country’s musical tastes from your business seminar alone – that demographic sounds like there’s more people aged 35 and older? There are only more college-aged music fanatics than ever – when I taught adults – I had similar experiences – they had never heard of Bob marley or Johnny Cash, but then I decided that the type of person to study at Buxibans were more goodies-goodies and less likely to discover that kind of music

– tell your Music major friends: the rock scene is small, community-based; people here love music, but majority is either classical or mando-pop. Off the top of my head, there is a small jazz scene: three clubs for jazz (Blue Note, Sappho, Brown Sugar), two indie rock clubs (the Wall, the Underworld); one club for aspiring pop artists (Riverside) – I’ve probably forgotten something

my two cents

10

[quote=“Mawvellous”]
I think there’s some truth in that, but it doesn’t explain why Japan has a large and well developed music/art scene despite many similarities in cultural heritage.
Maybe someone who has more experience of Japan can help explain. I am sure size has something to do with it-a larger market makes such endeavours more viable.[/quote]
Size has nothing to do with musical interest in a culture. Consider the Caribbean. Nearly all (maybe all in fact) of the countries there are smaller than Taiwan yet several of them have distinct musical styles and in the case of Trinidad even developed a new musical instrument.

I think the idea that Taiwanese parents value academics above all else is part of the reason for the low interest in music. Maybe the whole martial law thing is a factor too. There definitely is a tradition of music in Taiwan; this is apparent whenever there’s an election or festival, but for some reason that hasn’t been expressed in the culture as a whole. The people just don’t value music.

Here’s a wacky theory; maybe it’s a face thing. Many Taiwanese seem to think of themselves as “not creative” and music is definitely a creative thing. Fearing embarrassment, maybe they don’t experiment with music and therefore fail to develop an appreciation for it?

11

I work in the industry. When I first came to Taiwan it was to be a remix engineer for a Sony BMG Asia/Taiwan. I was introduced to a plethora of no talent shitheads and god awful Musical rip offs of what ever the flavor of the month was in the US or Japan, I was also introduced into the ugly truth about the Taiwan music business:

First and foremost the system works on a strict system of payola [illegal in most western countries] where each radio play or mtv play is paid for by the record company, the exact opposite of western countries where artists are paid royalties for each radio play etc… this creates a system of continuous no talent pretty faced wonders it takes no talent or imagination to mass produce the same shit over and over; assembly line mentality applied to the arts…

Second artists are not really artists they are meat puppets who gained some kind of success in another field, usually tv and then an album is shat out to garner some product endorsement deals for the label. Additionally most are rich kids from wealthy families who paid their way into TV and music in the hopes they could cash in on the endorsements. face and guan xi play a huge part in this system, as does the cock sucking ability of the boys and girls from less affluent families who do manage to suck their way into the system.

Third most big acts, except a few, sell at best 3 to 4000 disks. Obviously Jay Cho, FIR and Hong lee are exceptions but for example the second SHE cd cost 750,000 nt to produce and sold less that 4000 copies. Of that 750,000 300,000 was paid to the producer who did nothing more that hire the recording engineer and studio musicians, as in other business here it is all about stuffing your own pockets before the whole thing collapses. Despite this the product endorsement deals were numerous and they are huge stars.

Forth there are a few amazing studio musicians who play 70 to 80% of the songs you hear. Artists rarely write music or play instruments, they whole package is put together for them and they just roll in pretend to sing and leave. The rest is pro tools cut and paste and pitch correction. In four years of recording I met 2 people who could really sing. This really does not foster originality if all the songs are played by the same few people, ever wonder why they all sound the same? well now you know it is the same, the same people over and over who come in play the part with no passion and leave day… after day

Fifth because the product endorsement deals are so lucrative for the label they don’t give a shit about talent, they are quite happy to keep flooding the market with the same cookie cutter bubble gum pop bullshit that has ruined the industry here because McDonalds will pay huge cash for the next pouty faced big eyed fuck-stick man/child pop star. My boss at the label actually said to me it doesn’t matter if the songs are good we just have to package it right and we can get deals with the companies for tv ads… I quit the next week.

Now for the good news, there actually is a huge and amazing underground music scene here but it gets zero support from the media.
Post rock, Punk, Metal , death metal, etc… actual original ideas and songs coming from talented artists with a heart and a point of view.
Sadly because Artists have to pay to play in clubs and no matter how great they are most get ignored by the industry unless they are meat puppets. Eventually they give up at 25 to pursue a job in electrical engineering or whatever…

Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia all have great passionate rock scenes fully supported by local radio and television and their scenes are amazing the bands are great and the talent is tight.

So if you want to know why the local music scene here sucks it boils down to the same few reasons that Taiwan is suffering in general:

Cha bu duo… Cronies and guan xi… unfettered greed and lack of imagination.

12

nah you is barking up the wrong tree here innit?

every rich kid and 'is sister is in a band here or in a hip hop dance posse…its just that they is crap…really crap…go to spring scream…300 crap bands can’t be wrong…the problem is most Chinese are not particularly musical (generalization I know but still true nonetheless) plus the education system has destroyed all creative processes (thats why you can have 300,000 girls with piano credentials above Grade 8…all it takes is practice)…look at who the good musicians are in taiwan…aborigines…because they have innate musical ability…

excuse my ravings, i is hungover innit…

13

I been to a few underground rock shows… a lot of them are really hosted by people with a passion for the style of music. For example Metal Monster V was actually hosted by the second to last band that played there (AntiCross) and I bought my ticket from that guy. For the most part they are great, some bands kinda made it (like Chtonic) mostly because someone in there has the money to keep it going or the political guan xi to keep at it. However from what I can tell, a lot of the pop music I have seen were written and played by someone completely unrelated to the pop star that sang it, it says it right on the album lyrics and music video! A lot of the pop stars I used to like when I was young (when I was mindless enough to like mandopop) like “grasshopper” just are totally unheard of, and if you asked anyone who they are no one has a clue.

But like most indie bands in Taiwan people just give up right around the mid 20’s and cut their hair and goes back to a boring job in some boring companies, there are ZERO support for them in any form of media. You might hear about Chtonic if you’re lucky but that’s because someone in there has political guan xi.

14

shifty: well said.

that’s the unfortunate truth.

but then, who listens to big-label shit anyway?

15

[quote=“urodacus”]shifty: well said.

that’s the unfortunate truth.

but then, who listens to big-label shit anyway?[/quote]

Lots and lots of Taiwanese who hears the stuff on the radio and thinks if its on the radio it must be good… This is how capitalism works, if there’s a demand for it, they will make more of it. If no one truly listens then they would quit making it.

16

i know that, guitar man. i meant, who IMPORTANT listens to that shit ?

:slight_smile:

17

Gee, I think there is great music here.
Not to mention the expat scene, which has some great bands, some other local bands come to mind off the top of my head:
Water 3
WuBai
Betel Nut Brothers
Huego and Doc Doc (who are from The Betel Nut Brothers - fantastic group)
Biung
Matthew Lien (not Taiwanese but works with lots of Taiwanese musicians)

Trees Music seems to promote some great stuff - I wish I was more in the loop and took the time to get to more gigs.

Current favorite is Guillemots, but they have nothing at all to do with Taiwan. Great band.

18

[quote=“kage”]Gee, I think there is great music here.
Not to mention the expat scene, which has some great bands, some other local bands come to mind off the top of my head:
Water 3
WuBai
Betel Nut Brothers
Huego and Doc Doc (who are from The Betel Nut Brothers - fantastic group)
Biung
Matthew Lien (not Taiwanese but works with lots of Taiwanese musicians)

Trees Music seems to promote some great stuff - I wish I was more in the loop and took the time to get to more gigs.

Current favorite is Guillemots, but they have nothing at all to do with Taiwan. Great band.[/quote]

matthew lien? hardly counts does he? new age music for tree hugging…and wu bai? decent pub rock for sure but hes been playing here for 20 years…look at who the big new bands are…1976? one of the worst bands i’ve ever seen; can’t sing, can’t write songs, can’t play their guitars…

19

Some serious good foreign musicians here (but getting zilch attention from the local media, of course). But in the clubs they play, there is a burgeoning taiwanese audience who love the rare chance to hear decent music instead of the insipid shite which Shifty described so well.

But Wu Bai? apart from being an arsehole, what is really unique about what he does? he’s one of the few taiwanese rockers who plays real rock (mainly thanks to Dino, his foreign drummer). But does it sound good? would you really go home, open a can of beer & think “hey, let’s put a Wu Bai CD on…!”. No, I don’t think so. Beam Wu Bai into the western world (with lyrics changed to English) and he’d just be another uninspiring band act going nowhere in a hurry.

Some of the best music I’ve heard in Taiwan is in Sappho de Base (An Ho & Xing Yi Rd.) . Dub, Jazz, funk, acid jazz - its all played there live - and (in Taiwan) of course - its also going nowhere in a hurry. But maybe through the internet/You Tube such acts might reach a wider audience. Unappreciated in Taiwan, maybe some might end up in other countries. And one of the inspriational influences they may late cite to the music press will be …Taiwan. “a cultural desert which really stimulated my creative juices…”

20

It always bemuses me why the Chinese aren’t more of a musical race of people. After all, this is a highly repressive society and surely music would be a great outlet for all that pent up frustration? The reason for this lack of musicality in Chinese culture goes back to our old ‘friend’ Confucius, who, although a lover of music, would not have advocated “art for art’s sake”. No, Confucius cherished music primarily as a means of MORAL EDUCATION:

By poetry the mind is aroused; from music the finish is received . . . The Odes stimulate the mind. They induce self-contemplation. They teach the art of sensibility. They help to regulate resentment. They bring home the duty of serving one’s father and one’s prince.

Note here that the arts are to be used for “self-contemplation”, “sensibility”, self-control, and duty. One gets the distinct impression that Confucius would have been happy having his students appreciate the soothing sounds of Mozart and Matthew Lien, but would have aggressively steered them away from the dissonant chords of AC/DC and Motorhead.

For years I’ve been teaching my IELTs students a class on music. One of the handouts has pictures of different musical instruments, which I ask the students to label. Then I ask them which instruments are popular in Taiwan and they of course tell me the violin and the piano. “Why these?” I ask. And then class after class after class come up with the same reasons:

1. These instruments are “elegant” and we can look “elegant” too.
2. The piano is the foundation of all musical instruments.
3. There are plenty of piano and violin teachers around at reasonable prices.
4. These instruments and the music that emanates from them shape character.
5. The drums are too noisy and would annoy my parents and the neighbours. And anyway, it’s virtually impossible to find a good drum teacher in Taiwan!

So there you have it. Teachers and parents are encouraging their young to learn either the violin or the piano because it is these instruments that best “teach the art of sensibility”. While I don’t deny that this my be one important function of music, what is obviously missing is the PASSION for music. Thus, if you go out to a club here, you see Chinese boys and girls mooning about, quite unsure how to express themselves on the dancefloor. If they do muster up the courage to hit the floor, it is usually in groups to do the Macarena or foxtrot, something in other words that is coordinated, learnt, and devoid of any kind of individual self expression. No way could a Taiwanese dude grease up the floor like John Travolta did in Saturday Night Fever. In fact, the mind boggles just thinking about it.