I generally don’t like stereotypes or blanket generalizations, especially when encompassing groups of people who determine where I will live, what I eat, and how much I get paid each month, but I think I may have stumbled upon the root of many complaints of foreigners living in Taiwan…
The idea of truth
I was discussing this with a friend of mine who’s really getting dumped on by her boss. The boss doesn’t perceive the things she’s promised to my friend but not followed through on as being dishonest. She has also had a restaurant lie to her about the whereabouts of her credit card when she discovered they didn’t return it to her after dinner (they’ve lost it although their manager had seen it in a safe that only other managers have access to). And in the middle of this, I had a profound heavenly revelation (not the first of them, but that’s a whole 'nother story):
The concept of white lies in Taiwan is completely different from what we know in the west. In the west, we generally will tell a white lie about our opinion or observations to keep our friends and allies happy, but find it very important to tell the truth when it comes to things that are factual.
In Taiwan, the opposite is generally true. They will tell you that you’re too fat, too black, have a big nose, and stink, but when it comes to things like giving directions, when they’ll finish your project, or saying that they’ll come in for a parent-teacher conference, these are all things deserving of mistruth believed to be harmless and necessary in order to maintain harmony and keep everyone happy.
I’ve been told that too. This is a short conversation that took place between me and my Qi-gong practicing supervisor:
Me: I need more than thirty minutes a week to have any effect on the 3-year olds I 'm teaching.
Supervisor:They’re scared of you.
Me: Why?
Supervisor: You’re black.
I find it really frustrating though, and I’m sure other people do too. I mean facts are things that can be proven wrong, but yet it’s okay to lie about them? And why are promises, contracts, and agreements things that hold no water?
I’d much rather hear “I don’t know” than spend 20 minutes going in the completely wrong direction. I don’t see the point of lying about facts just to save face.
I often get the feeling reading threads like this that no one here has ever worked for a small business in their home country. The implication is that there’s ‘something different about them locals’, but you can be sure that if the law didn’t stop folks back home, they’d be stealing from each other all the time.
[quote=“ImaniOU”]They will tell you that you’re too fat, too black, have a big nose, and stink, but when it comes to things like giving directions, when they’ll finish your project, or saying that they’ll come in for a parent-teacher conference, these are all things deserving of mistruth believed to be harmless and necessary in order to maintain harmony and keep everyone happy.
Should I patent this idea or what?[/quote]
IIRC, Hartzell talked about this in his book, Harmony in Conflict.
[quote=“Tigerman”][quote=“ImaniOU”]They will tell you that you’re too fat, too black, have a big nose, and stink, but when it comes to things like giving directions, when they’ll finish your project, or saying that they’ll come in for a parent-teacher conference, these are all things deserving of mistruth believed to be harmless and necessary in order to maintain harmony and keep everyone happy.
Should I patent this idea or what?[/quote]
IIRC, Hartzell talked about this in his book, Harmony in Conflict.[/quote]
Damn, I thought I had a deep profound thought all by myself. Should’ve known better…
In traditional Chinese culture, you don’t say “no” directly, yet you try to do as littlr as possible that might have repercussions. I think that’s where these not-quite-accurate statements come from. After all, something has to give, and it can’t be saying no or taking initiative.
The only thing that is a constant Truth in Asia and in most of the world, There is absolutely no Fairness or Justice and Contradictions do not bother Asians- as long as you accept that you’ll shrug everything off.
That statement made me laugh for half an hour.I wonder which country you’re from?
That is so untrue of so many country I have been to, no maybe you are from some small country somewhere where it seems very nice people live there, so I wonder, where you from? Because when you say in the west, that is a very large part of the world.
That statement made me laugh for half an hour.I wonder which country you’re from?
That is so untrue of so many country I have been to, no maybe you are from some small country somewhere where it seems very nice people live there, so I wonder, where you from? Because when you say in the west, that is a very large part of the world.[/quote]
I believe she was referring to incidents such as: in Canada or the USA, if you ask a bus driver if this bus goes to X, he will say yes or no, truthfully. If you ask a passerby how to get to the post office, he or she will either say ‘I don’t know’ or will give you the directions - truthfully. In Taiwan and China, people often tell you something that is wrong because they think it is what you want to hear - so even if they don’t know where the post office is, they will give you directions - because thinking you have the directions will make you happy (for a short time, until you realize the directions are wrong.) Or they tell you something incorrect for their own benefit - but I have never had a bus driver lie to me about where the bus was going in the West.
The sympton that irritates me most is the “flexible time & location game”
“I’ll ring you at 10 tomorrow morning” = phone call at 4 pm
“Let’s meet at Warner Village 2pm on Sunday” = phone call at 6pm Sunday “I’m waiting for you at Banqiao”
“I’ll come to your house tonight at 6pm” = no show
“I’m going to hire someone new for the shop” = shop closed and empty!
I have a fixed, regular, scheduled meeting with a group of local engineers EVERY Tuesday at 10am for more than 6 years now.
And they are late EVERY week.
I get angry, piss all over them, and they’re on time … the next meeting. But ONLY the next meeting. Two weeks later and it’s back to normal: arriving anything between 1 and 30 minutes late.
Oh, and God forbid we break late for lunch. Anything said or done after 12 is a waste of time because “we must eat”, “we feel so weak”.
Solution: We have a standing arrangement now. They call me once they are all in the room… ready to go. Works great. I feel important 'cause everybody is waiting for me.
So, instead of me waiting for a bunch on morons who can’t be on fu**ing time, they call me while I browse Forumosa to reduce my stress levels.
I lived in Taiwan for 13 years, most of the time when I ask directions I got the correct ones, sometimes it’s wrong. Same thing happen to me when i traveled in the “west” US, Canada, France, Yougoslavia etc…
The quote above is totallu untrue, the same thing occurs in the “West”
People in the West don’t lie about things of values? give me a break!
I don’t know anything about Taiwan’s insurance industry but I’ve had no good experience with my insurance agent (and his wife, whose role in his office I’m not quite sure about) and insurance companies (auto, home, medical, and dental, etc.) in the US.
The “customer service” representatives (on the phone or through email) are almost always inexperienced, unknowledgable, or plain wrong. They’ve wasted me lots of time and cost me some money. I’ve had people from my dental plan told me lies (stupid ones) when I demanded an answer. People from my medical plan misled me and let me think I wasn’t covered for certain procedures that were actually covered.
My insurance agent (of auto and home insurance) was never helpful when I wanted to update or change my coverage. The insurance company (one of the largest in the country) never handled my claims promptly or correctly. When I’d call, they’d say “I did. I dont’ knwo why.” or “If she said she did then she did.” or “Are you sure you told me that?”
