DB, that’s a surprising amount of anger and aggression there. An unfortunately typical rubber band effect.
Yeah, I know. I don’t share this very often, because I don’t want to make friends who are religious uncomfortable.
Most of the anger is in reaction to the oppressiveness of the particular situation I was raised in; my parents are not even typical Catholics – they’re really hardcore, right-wing types. Otherwise wonderful people, but there you have it. Had my parents been very liberal Christians, and had I been raised in, say, Australia, I’m quite sure my reaction would have been very different. Anyway, as you probably already know, I certainly don’t hate or even dislike people of any particular faith, including Catholicism. I’m not hostile to the faiths of others – just hostile towards the unwelcome historical imposition of religion on me, and the ongoing attempts in America to impose it on our schools through school prayer, creationism and I.D., and on our governmental symbols and institutions.
When people are mature and respectful enough to keep their faith private, I very naturally feel respect in return, and I don’t walk around angry at religion per se. That’s why I find it quite easy to have friends who are religious, and why despite my underlying bitterness, you don’t see me trolling the threads on religion like a couple others do. In fact, I’m very impressed by many of the good things which many religious groups have accomplished for society, and by how religion can help some individuals get through great difficulties. I enjoy hearing discussion of religion in an intellectual context, for instance, when people are explaining how their sect differs from others, if they do so without any arrogance and without any intent to convert me.
But I didn’t feel I could really answer the OP’s question without some honesty about the baggage that comes along with my particular brand of atheism. 
[quote=“Dragonbones”] I’m not hostile to the faiths of others – just hostile towards the unwelcome historical imposition of religion on me, and the ongoing attempts in America to impose it on our schools through school prayer, creationism and I.D., and on our governmental symbols and institutions.
When people are mature and respectful enough to keep their faith private, I very naturally feel respect in return, and I don’t walk around angry at religion per se. That’s why I find it quite easy to have friends who are religious, and why despite my underlying bitterness, you don’t see me trolling the threads on religion like a couple others do. In fact, I’m very impressed by many of the good things which many religious groups have accomplished for society, and by how religion can help some individuals get through great difficulties. I enjoy hearing discussion of religion in an intellectual context, for instance, when people are explaining how their sect differs from others, if they do so without any arrogance and without any intent to convert me.
[/quote]
Right on.
DB, I really admire your very moderate, reasonable, and respectful approach to the religiously minded despite your negative personal experiences. I was amazed by your post because from my very enjoyable personal experiences and discussions with you on matters religious I would have had no idea that your feelings were so strongly negative. 
I try hard not to let it prejudice me against others. But it’s tough not to be a wee bit negative when your own mother won’t attend your wedding unless you both convert to HER religion.
To me, growing up in a family with religious parents is almost beyond my capacity to imagine. Just goes to underscore the diversity of human experience.
Nope… elapsed athiests don’t get to take part.
I grew up there… in a Catholic family going to Catholic schools… never once in my life did I believe in God. Church was pure boredom so I became an Altar boy for several years to beat the boredom of Mass.
The only good thing about Catholic schools and going to Catholic Boarding schools was the education and the rugby.
That’s as far as I read, you filthy pervert.
Here’s an honest question brought on by a post on an earlier page–why do non-believers, or non-religious persons, athiest or agnostic, or simply hostile to being labled or whatever–the intentionally Godless–why do they marry in chruches and why do they use the services of a priest/pastor to marry them? Isn’t the whole point of that, “to marry before God?” Has it simply become a cultural phenomonon? I’m never likely to do it again, but if I did I’m pretty sure I’d want to do it outside at night under the stars. But then, I’m a bit strange. 
Different reasons: perhaps one of the partners is a Christian, perhaps they have religious family members to placate, perhaps they’re still-in-the-closet atheists, perhaps they’ve always thought of a church wedding as a romantic, traditional thing to do, perhaps they always wanted to be married in Vegas by an Elvis-impersonating priest…
But then again, many non-theistic couples don’t get married in churches or by priests, preferring the garden wedding or another nontraditional style.
Different reasons: perhaps one of the partners is a Christian, perhaps they have religious family members to placate, perhaps they’re still-in-the-closet atheists, perhaps they’ve always thought of a church wedding as a romantic, traditional thing to do, perhaps they always wanted to be married in Vegas by an Elvis-impersonating priest…
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Good one, housecat
Yep, what Chris said.
I was one of those from your question.
Pressure to conform, mostly. Misguided desire to please my family, also. The really hilarious thing about it was that niether me, my ex-husband, his mom nor my mom (no dads in the picture), none of us were very religious. So if you ask me now who I was out to please, I really don’t know, cos none of the other family memebers (all staunch Caths) really matter.
The only thing about my marriage I really regret is the hypocricy of insisting on a church wedding. I still cringe at the thought of it.
I have no idea. I sure didn’t get married in a church. Some of my sisters did, to please their husbands or their husbands’ families. For non-religious people, its maybe just a nice place to get married – its just a building, after all, and the priest or whatever is just some bloke doing his job – there’s no “specialness” except for religious people. Maybe some people just like the flowers and decor and the bloke in the dress doing the “dearly beloved” thing. Adds a bit of pomp, no?
It helps if you’re not the first born.
My mother and big sister are devout Catholics.
My brother (4th child in the family, w/ me 5th) got married in a church in Berkeley.
He wanted to go to the Justice of the Peace, but Mother was shocked, “You mean, you’re going to the guy that gives out DOG licenses!?”
Anyway, the “priest” in Berkeley was wearing jeans, had forgotten to turn on the heat, and kept forgetting the names of the bride and groom.
Afterwards, my mom asked, “So are you two really married, or are Bob and Jen married?”
When Mom and sisters came to visit me in Taiwan, I was like , “OK, so let’s figure out where a church is . . . I know there are a lot of Filipinas that seem to hang out on Chung Shan North road on Sundays . . .”
I went with them once, and the next Sunday, my devout sister took Mom back while other sister and I slept in, drank coffee and listened to some CDs.
My mother asked me if I was Buddhist. It was in a voice that sounded like,
“Have you started worshipping Satan or eaten any babies?”
It’s a lot harder to be a non-believer in America than in Europe.
America was founded by religious fanatics, what do you expect?
That’s as far as I read, you filthy pervert.[/quote]
Keep away from my frock you skirt wearing gonad coverer
I remember reading a few years ago that the desire for a whole traditional Western ‘white wedding’ in Japan was so strong that (white)
foreigners were making extra money on weekends by putting on dog collars and performing ceremonies.
Interesting question. I a bombastic, militant, atheist. I have total tolerance for religions that tolerate me, but none for religions that don’t. I wrote a commentary on the Gospel of Mark (www.michaelturton.com) and I have been a mod for a couple of dicsussion forums on Christianity and history. I take a deep interest in early Christian history. I hope someday to see a world where we are entirely free of hate-filled, intolerant, authority-centered belief systems like Islam, Christianity, Communism, and Fascism, but history doesn’t give me much hope.
Hmmm…guess I wasn’t kidding about being bombastic.
Michael
[quote=“Vorkosigan”]Interesting question. I a bombastic, militant, atheist. I have total tolerance for religions that tolerate me, but none for religions that don’t. I wrote a commentary on the Gospel of Mark (michaelturton.com) and I have been a mod for a couple of dicsussion forums on Christianity and history. I take a deep interest in early Christian history. I hope someday to see a world where we are entirely free of hate-filled, intolerant, authority-centered belief systems like Islam, Christianity, Communism, and Fascism, but history doesn’t give me much hope.
Hmmm…guess I wasn’t kidding about being bombastic.
Michael[/quote]
You were kidding about being tolerant though.
But do you truly believe that ALL forms of, say, Christianity, are hate-filled, intolerant, authority-centered belief systems? I don’t believe they are. The ones I’ve had the most contact with most certainly ARE beyond any doubt terribly intolerant and mind-bogglingly authority-centered (as well as occasionally hateful – I’ve seen true hatred of homosexuals, for instance, in my contact with some Catholics, including my family members). But the distinction is vital when making universal statements like yours above. I’ve also met Christians who are wonderfully open-minded, free from hatred, and not at all authority-centered, and they were not isolated individuals; they were examples of the spirit (or should I say Spirit?) of their particular denominations. In fact, I’d call them the only true Christians.
While I really agree with your statement that “I have total tolerance for religions that tolerate me, but none for religions that don’t”, if you fail to make the above distinction, then as Fortigurn points out, you yourself are not showing the tolerance you preach.