Your fears are confirmed. There are a good percentage of people from Vietnam in North America that is ethnically Chinese and probably know Cantonese from speaking it at home and Mandarin from learning it at school.
Your fears are confirmed. There are a good percentage of people from Vietnam in North America that is ethnically Chinese and probably know Cantonese from speaking it at home and Mandarin from learning it at school.[/quote]
Super!
The worst part about the whole thing was for some reason she always insisted on trying to get me to agree. On about the third outing we were at the mall and there were some Vietnamese people talking near the door. She stops on the way out and says (in Mandarin), “Do you hear these Vietnamese? Isn’t their language so terrible?” I got embarassed as usual and said, “They might be able to understand you.” She got this incredibly shocked look on her face and said, “But they’re Vietnamese! They can’t understand Mandarin!”
Apparently the irony was lost on her that she was speaking in Mandarin…to an American. Or perhaps she just thinks Vietnamese people are stupid. A common insult my in-laws (not really my wife’s parents, but their relatives) use to describe a messy looking person is to say, “She looks just like a Vietnamese person.” They called my wife that once when she had just woken up and had major bed hair. Lovely people!
[quote=“wisher”]Taiwanese.
Especially ,when people say the rude words.[/quote]
That’s crazy talk. There’s nothing better than hearing “You’ve got shit on your eyes!” in Taiwanese.
Bac sai? You mean tears?
HG
I was once told that English sounds harsh… like a lawnmower, to non-native speakers. It was a mandarin speaking friend who told me this. Once when a bunch of friends and I were in a Taxi, the cab driver said we sounded like 2,000 ducks.
Maybe it would help to think about this from the other direction–what makes a language beautiful? When Tolkien created Sindarin (the elf language–you heard it in the Lord of the Rings movies) he filled it with soft consonants (lots of l’s and w’s) with the result that it sounds very pretty, but probably lacks the necessary phonemic depth to ever become a real language (because they’ll use up all the possible words unless they add “ugly” sounds).
Outsiders think tonal languages sound like sing-song, insiders laugh at outsiders who use pitch to indicate grammar (yes. yes! yes? yes…) because it makes hash of the tones.
It must matter that some languages are intended as monosyllabic (though not really in practice). I find it irritating to listen to Chinese or Tibetan that is “recited” syllable by syllable.
Is there anybody who DOESN’T like Italian? Maybe that could be the gold standard.
What about the various Indian languages? I think Sanskrit and Nepali are beautiful for the rhythm of the language, and also for the attractive combinations of vowels and consonants. (Not sure how to describe this.) Other languages like Hindi would probably strike me the same way, except that I can’t help but focus on the differences with Nepali.
Personally I like German, Russian, and Arabic and think they are pretty (but of course I am prejudiced in the direction of “evil” languages). Chinese can be pretty, but not when shouted by my mother-in-law. I have mixed feelings about French–certainly I’m not one of those who thinks it’s especially romantic (in the non-linguistic sense).
Volapuk is unspeakably ugly, by almost universal consent. (Laernob volapeuki!)
Interesting comment. But Chinese also lacks phonemic depth, no? And it resolves the problem through a bizarrely high level of homophony (often disambiguated through word compounding) and tonality.
I think it depends on how people use the language.
I met a girl who is good at insulting and attacking people in her proficient language.
She made the language ugly.
I am really sorry for her.
Right, Dragonbones–presumably the elves could solve this problem either by making longer words, or adding tones.
I wonder how much of a language’s perceived beauty (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with any of the inherent sounds in the language, but rather our impressions of that culture. People think that Cantonese sounds “ugly” because HK is a bustling crowded city, German sounds “ugly” because they’re perceived as not being as romantic as the French or Italians, Taiwanese or Vietmanese is “ugly” because of the socio-economic connotations, etc.
For beautiful Cantonese, check out Young and Dangerous 3, when Karen Mok nearly gets hit by a car in the street and then unleashes a torrent of insults, alternating between Cantonese and Queen’s English.
I’m not sure I’d call Taiwanese a beautiful language, but I think it’s so much more friendly and warm-hearted. After a couple of beers, I’d much rather tell someone what a good friend they are in my god-awful Taiwanese rather than Taiwan gouyu (pinyin deliberately mangled).
Interesting comment. But Chinese also lacks phonemic depth, no? And it resolves the problem through a bizarrely high level of homophony (often disambiguated through word compounding) and tonality.[/quote]
Yikes. I really don’t know anything about linguistics and I’m not even going to try to make a serious contribution to that side of the discussion.
But in my layman’s way I’m going to say I’ve always had a fondness for Swedish. I think they sound like they’re singing when they speak.
God that was lame. Oh well. Gao hear Swedish. Gao like. :raspberry:
Danish is my favourite language. I couldn’t stop listening over and over and over again…here, decide for yourselves: Sound of the Danes.
But I wonder if Vietnamese themselves or Cantonese people themselves think their dialects are ugly? Mind you, I’m surrounded by Cantonese and its various forms (Toisan is EXACTLY that spitting and loogie-spitting dialect) in Vancouver and NorCal. But I’m not going to go and ask my VN and Cantonese-speaking friends if they feel their dialects/languages are ugly.
I find Spanish and French bootiful. But I also don’t speak them fluently. Does that have any bearing on the beauty of a lang? As in if the likelihood of you thinking a lang is pretty, the likelihood that you don’t speak it is higher?
How many English-speakers think English is ugly?
No, they don’t, although they may find other languages/dialects more appealing than their own.
It is when it’s Singlish shudder.
[quote=“Screaming Jesus”]Swedish ugly and have few words. See video:
youtube.com/watch?v=QCJLCc8DRrk[/quote]
Did I mention I hate you?
[quote=“wisher”]Taiwanese.
Especially ,when people say the rude words.[/quote]
A while back I was sitting outside a 7-11 on one of those tables they have now, drinking tea. A gang of Taiwanese guys came along and sat down at the table next to me, and cracked open a 6 pack of Taiwan pee-joe. I kid you not, literally every other word out of their mouths was some variation of “gan” or “tamade”. I’ve rarely heard a mother’s dignity insulted so many times in a half hour. Since I don’t speak Taiwanese aside from the dirty words, I couldn’t understand what they were talking about, but those few words I did know came through loud and clear.
Four linguists were sharing a compartment on a train on their way to an international conference on sound symbolism. One was English, one Spanish, one French and the fourth German. They got into a discussion on whose language was the most eloquent and euphonious.
The English linguist said: “Why, English is the most eloquent language. Take for instance the word “butterfly”. Butterfly, butterfly… doesn’t that word so beautifully express the way this delicate insect flies. It’s like flutter-by, flutter-by.”
“Oh, no!” said the Spanish linguist, “the word for “butterfly” in Spanish is “mariposa”. Now, this word expresses so beautifully the vibrant colours on the butterfly’s wings. What could be a more apt name for such a brilliant creature? Spanish is the most eloquent language!”
“Papillon!” says the French linguist, “papillon! This word expresses the fragility of the butterfly’s wings and body. This is the most fitting name for such a delicate and ethereal insect. French is the most eloquent language!”
At this the German linguist stands up, and demands: “And what is wrong with ‘SCHMETTERLING’?”
And the prosecution rests its case leaving the jury to ponder SCHMETTERLING.
HG