haha yes I am only 26 
External change is FUN though! Even if it dont teach me shit as you say 
:discodance:
I respectfully disagree. I think I get your point Buttercup, but just as a plant becomes rootbound after too long in the same container, and once itâs transplanted to a larger container may grow significantly, so too people grow bored, restless and stagnant in the same dull surroundings, getting into dull, meaningless and even harmful patterns and lacking the ability to see alternatives, so transplanting them to a whole different world can allow them to grow significantly in directions they never might have imagined before. Sure, that analogy may be a little corny, and ultimately the growth comes from the person, not the environment, but it was the new, larger, different container that made that growth possible. Of course, countless other containers would have served the same purpose (with different results), but the container is instrumental in bringing about the change.
I respectfully disagree. I think I get your point Buttercup, but just as a plant becomes rootbound after too long in the same container, and once itâs transplanted to a larger container may grow significantly, so too people grow bored, restless and stagnant in the same dull surroundings, getting into dull, meaningless and even harmful patterns and lacking the ability to see alternatives, so transplanting them to a whole different world can allow them to grow significantly in directions they never might have imagined before. Sure, that analogy may be a little corny, and ultimately the growth comes from the person, not the environment, but it was the new, larger, different container that made that growth possible. Of course, countless other containers would have served the same purpose (with different results), but the container is instrumental in bringing about the change.[/quote]
MT ! I think I love you (dont worry non homo way hahah) I could not have said this better I dont think! I too agree that different environments will produce different ideas, behaviors, and thoughts within people. This is why people must surround themselves with âpositive influencesâ at a young age (or any age for that matter) This totally makes sense 
Not meant to be patronising at all. Iâm sure you look back at 16 year olds and see their views differently than you did when you were 16 yourself?
But seriously, there are people on this forum who have been here longer than youâve been alive. Some of them love it, some of them hate it, others just donât think about it because it doesnât define their feelings or experiences. Everyone rants, sometimes, and sometimes itâs easier to rant with a bunch of friends (many many people here know eachother irl) than at your wife or colleagues who donât share your experience of being an expat in Taiwan, however cool they are (or arenât).
The older or long-termer flobbers are generally more chilled. The six month to four or five year, younger mid-termers blow off culture-shocky steam. Newbs just ask pointless questions and state the obvious a lot and go on about how fabulous everything is. All usual expat discourse. Youâll learn to tune in and not see disrespect, or unhappiness where there is none.
Edit MT, I see your point of view. I guess Iâm just overgeneralising. Iâve moved around a lot and it doesnât bring about changes, internally. Just stuff happening, not me, inside. To go with your analogy, the âlarger potâ assumes you were in a small pot where you were before. I really believe I would be happy and fulfilled if I lived in a cave. The larger pot doesnât always have to be external stimulus; for your own welfare, you have to push through that, because people, jobs, houses, places, etc, can disappear in a flash. Always chasing the bigger pot isnât good for us.
(Sorry, I sound like a stupid hippie.)
[quote=âButtercupâ]Not meant to be patronising at all. Iâm sure you look back at 16 year olds and see their views differently than you did when you were 16 yourself?
But seriously, there are people on this forum who have been here longer than youâve been alive. Some of them love it, some of them hate it, others just donât think about it because it doesnât define their feelings or experiences. Everyone rants, sometimes, and sometimes itâs easier to rant with a bunch of friends (many many people here know eachother irl) than at your wife or colleagues who donât share your experience of being an expat in Taiwan, however cool they are (or arenât).
The older or long-termer flobbers are generally more chilled. The six month to four or five year, younger mid-termers blow off culture-shocky steam. Newbs just ask pointless questions and state the obvious a lot and go on about how fabulous everything is. All usual expat discourse. Youâll learn to tune in and not see disrespect, or unhappiness where there is none.
Edit MT, I see your point of view. I guess Iâm just overgeneralising.[/quote]
Thanks for clarifying Buttercup. Sorry I got upset previously. I just wished everyone could be happy all the time LOL :discodance: But I totally understand what you are saying. I will try to be more sensitive to that in my future posts 
[quote=âfreethinker83â]
Thanks for clarifying Buttercup. Sorry I got upset previously. I just wished everyone could be happy all the time LOL :discodance: But I totally understand what you are saying. I will try to be more sensitive to that in my future posts [/quote]
Doesnât happen. Everything ends, everyone feels shitty and alone and unhappy. Everything ends, everything dies. But everyone feels wonderful and connected and alive, too. To expect and chase âhappyâ will drive nuts and send you into all sorts of conflict. Taiwan is shitty, evil, rank and hellish. Itâs also paradise. As is everywhere.
OK, seriously, HIPPIE ALERT! Did someone spike my chamomile tea? Iâm going to fuck off to bed now, before I embarrass myself any more âŚ
Taiwan is a small country, after a few years you may exhaust itâs resources so to speak. Plus cultural and almost any change is slow, thatâs frustrating after a while when you know things can be done better. I find your attitude very arrogant but you will learn. Still itâs a good place to learn new ways of thinking about things and an appreciation for different backgrounds and the values of hard work.
I came here because of my partner.
Do you also qualify such expressions of affection to those of the opposite sex? Are you sure youâre from SF? How about âin a non-sexual wayâ?
Wife.***
*** To answer the the question. Didnât I reply that about 10 times previously in such discussionsâŚ?
I came to Taiwan for the waters.
And the non-pc environment.
I was misinformed.
Well, there is the wife also. Sheâs actually the main reason I moved here.
Although I am becoming rather fond of this town.
Iâm not bitter about Taiwan at all.
Why are you leaving San Francisco? No young, vibrant, exciting people there?[/quote]
Actually very few unfortunately. This city has high turnover rate of these types of people. And no one seems to develop real relationships here in San Francisco. Been here 3 years and not much luck with serious people. From what I can tell people are much more friendlier in Taiwan.[/quote]
You only live in the Bay Area for 3 years and you think youâre the resident expert?
A large contributing factor of SFâs transient population is the nearby college and professional school students, and they all stay a minimum of 4 years. Youâve been there for 3, donât tell me you canât make meaningful connection when youâve only stayed there for less time than the college kids.
Tons of people I know met their spouse in SF, so if they can Iâm sure you can if you tried.
iv been here for ten , aint met my spouse yet , whats up with that???
I should see my guru to re-adjust my karma.
Actually very few unfortunately. This city has high turnover rate of these types of people. And no one seems to develop real relationships here in San Francisco. Been here 3 years and not much luck with serious people. From what I can tell people are much more friendlier in Taiwan.[/quote]
You only live in the Bay Area for 3 years and you think youâre the resident expert?
A large contributing factor of SFâs transient population is the nearby college and professional school students, and they all stay a minimum of 4 years. Youâve been there for 3, donât tell me you canât make meaningful connection when youâve only stayed there for less time than the college kids.
Tons of people I know met their spouse in SF, so if they can Iâm sure you can if you tried.[/quote]
no need whatsoever to be rude âcatfishâ! I just dont like the way people are so easy to cast you aside here. Gay men in this city use you for one thing and one thing only for the most part. I find it difficult trying to make friends with the straight guys here without thinking I am trying to pick them up. So oh well hahaâŚI moved here to be around more gay men but realize now that it may not have been the best idea! 
Ya someone i know is a hot asian girl in NYC and she says the same thing. All they want is one thing and when thats said and done?? Its easy to get laid in NYC for a nice asian girl but to get hitched? That aint easy.
NYC = Playa city
I got deported from Vietnam. I wound up here.
[quote=âfreethinker83â]Actually very few unfortunately. This city has high turnover rate of these types of people. And no one seems to develop real relationships here in San Francisco. Been here 3 years and not much luck with serious people. From what I can tell people are much more friendlier in Taiwan.
âŚ
I just dont like the way people are so easy to cast you aside here. Gay men in this city use you for one thing and one thing only for the most part. I find it difficult trying to make friends with the straight guys here without thinking I am trying to pick them up. So oh well hahaâŚI moved here to be around more gay men but realize now that it may not have been the best idea! [/quote]
My experience in SF was the complete opposite. I met some of the friendliest, most genuine, down-to-earth people of any place Iâve ever lived, which is saying a lot since there are 3 places in the US I call home and have traveled to every continent except Antarctica.
Nor did I ever experience any sexual tension between myself and any straight guys, which also says a lot since for at least part of the time I lived there I was a fitness trainer with both straight and gay clients. I also played competitive club-team volleyball with both straight and gay men.
I donât want to assume how you met the people you did, but I wonder if that may have clouded your experience. If you meet people in bath houses and/or gay bars/clubs, you will probably come across more people who arenât looking for long term relationships. There is definitely a âkid in a candy storeâ effect, though, on people from other areas who come to SF to discover the overwhelmingly available social and sex opportunities, something gays donât generally find in such numbers in the flyover states. But it just sounds like you werenât socializing in the right circles for what you are looking for.
My partner and I met in SF, where he was doing is graduate studies and moved here together when he was finished. Most/many of our friends there were in steady relationships.
Gay Taiwanese have their own challenges for steady relationships. Quite often family and social pressure keeps them deep in the closet.
As others have said here, though, if you are coming to escape an unhappy situation, you might find it difficult to be happy here, too. Every place has itâs good points and bad points. The key is to be happy with yourself and find the interesting things no matter where you are.
Hi Craig
I appreciate your post. I dont want to make it sound as if I am completely unhappy here. I am not. I have made some really close and good friends here but I guess not as many as I had back in High school. I think im still trying to recover from the loss of a ton of great friends down to around 5 or so haha
This might also have to do with the fact I have yet to attend college. So I am certainly missing out on that social opportunity. I am beginning classes next week for the first time. I am sure this will help out a bit. 
Iâd had about enough of Korea.
I wasnât deliberately trying to be rudeâŚeveryone has his or her reasons of moving to and away from a place. You did however begin this thread with the gross assumption that people here seem to only complain about Taiwan, a place you have somehow fantasizes to be a new utopia and an escape from SF, a place you took to be cold, heartless and unlovable.
I was looking for the opposite of French. I think I found it.