What's the deal with the Taiwan Civil Government?

[Hokwongwei]

@Dirt

Haven’t figured out why the folk born in the US are so rabid about TI. Best guess is, having been raised on the American Revolution, they get caught up in the romanticism.

I think that’s actually part of the reason. We, Americans, are so eager to go about regime change and installing democracies and fighting for liberties, and we still hate communism. Here is a country of free, liberal people running a successful democracy but unable to participate in world events because the angry communist giant next door keeps them under its thumb. How would you not support throwing off the yolk of the oppressors and marching towards liberty? (Of course, the reality of the situation is much more complicated.) On top of that, I think lots of Taiwanese Americans see modern Chinese culture and behavior and think it’s entirely alien and they don’t want to be associated with it.

Then there’s the fact that the KMT’s ideology doesn’t make sense once you’re free of their brain-washing. What, exactly, is the three principles of the people? Why is this a reason we should willingly submit to China’s infantile temper tantrums? How does this compare to more concrete ideals like democratic process, rule of law, and impartiality? These are questions that many in Taiwan don’t have the liberty to ask themselves because the social order encourages conformity. You’ll notice by no coincidence that the great majority of young people in Taiwan lean green; they are the ones are willing to question authority.

[Charlie_Jack]

@finley

[quote=“Charlie Jack”]They’ve recently opened an office in Banqiao District on Minquan Road near its intersection with Zhongshan Road. They seem to be having a ceremony today, with music, speechmaking, and so on.

Any idea who funds them? You don’t run advertising campaigns and open offices in (relatively) expensive areas without a fair bit of money.[/quote]

I don’t know, but that’s an interesting question.

[allan_chang]

@Hokwongwei

Then there’s the fact that the KMT’s ideology doesn’t make sense once you’re free of their brain-washing. What, exactly, is the three principles of the people? Why is this a reason we should willingly submit to China’s infantile temper tantrums? How does this compare to more concrete ideals like democratic process, rule of law, and impartiality? These are questions that many in Taiwan don’t have the liberty to ask themselves because the social order encourages conformity. You’ll notice by no coincidence that the great majority of young people in Taiwan lean green; they are the ones are willing to question authority.

Not sure the KMT has an ideology these days apart from the core notion that 1. our country is the ROC, 2. the status quo should be kept for the foreseeable future, and 3. when both countries are democratic, unification is the preferred option. I think most Taiwanese have accepted that our country is the ROC (subject to change in the future) and that the status quo is preferable to a declaration of independence/holding an independence referendum at this time. Obviously, a large number of people would not unify with the PRC even if it became democratic but there is nothing inherently wrong with the notion that unification with a democratic PRC might be a good option.

I haven’t read the three principles but what it boils down to for me is the idea that:

1. The people of a nation should be united. OK, Sun artificially created a larger ethnic group called Zonghuaminzhu which might feel strange to some people. But I would argue that this artificial creation is preferable to sectarianism. Too often have we seen how modern day nations (Bosnia, Rawanda etc.) tears itself to pieces with senseless ethnic conflicts.
2. The people of the nation should have certain inalienable rights. The concrete ideals that you mentioned like the democratic process, rule of law etc. would fall under this.
3. The livelihood of people of the nation should be taken care of. In essence this is socialism.
   I don’t see how believing in those ideals is tied to someone “willingly submit to China’s infantile temper tantrums”.

[Charlie_Jack]

@allan_chang

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]What, exactly, is the three principles of the people? Why is this a reason we should willingly submit to China’s infantile temper tantrums?

---

I don’t see how believing in those ideals is tied to someone “willingly submit to China’s infantile temper tantrums”.[/quote]

I don’t claim to know Hokwongwei’s mind, but I suspect that he more or less agrees with you on that point.

There do seem to be, however, people who see a connection between the idea of the Three Principles and the idea of unification.

There’s even an organization whose name contains both of those ideas:

[quote]The Grand Alliance for China’s Reunification under the Three Principles of the People (Chinese: 三民主義統一中國大同盟) is a pro-Kuomintang political association in the Republic of China (Taiwan) dedicated to the reunification of the Chinese mainland with the island of Taiwan. The association believes that the reunification will take place only on the basis of the Three Principles of the People of Dr. Sun Yat-Sen and a de jure Taiwan should be kept. The association is active in the Republic of China, Canada and the United States.[/quote]–Wikipedia, “Grand Alliance for China’s Reunification under the Three Principles of the People” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Alli … the_People

Here’s a Chinese-language Wikipedia article on the same subject:
zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%89% … C%E7%9B%9F

Again, I don’t claim to know Hokwongwei’s thoughts, but I’ll go out on a limb and say that I suspect that he suspects that the use of the Three Principles idea is a way to skirt around, or at least significantly modify, conventional ideas of basic rights and self-government. I’m not saying, at least at this point, that the Three Principles idea is being used that way; I’m just saying that Hokwongwei might suspect that.

If I’ve read Hokwongwei wrong, or if I’ve read you wrong, I hope to be corrected.