What's the going rate for a private tutor?

Language Learning Chinese
1

Hi,

I am considering getting a private tutor to assist with my Mandarin studies. After making various contacts on the internet and in person at various language schools the median rate seems to be around $NT400 - $NT700 per hour.

Is this right? :s

I have friends who can only get $NT400 per hour for tutoring English.

Do you have a private tutor?

Thanks

2

You shouldn’t be paying as much for a Chinese tutor as a foreign English tutor can get. 700 is too high. The Chinese teachers at the language schools probably don’t make 400 an hour. First, check with TLI or wherever and see how much a one-on-one class is. The school is getting a large cut of that. So the teacher will be willing to work for less.
You can advertise at universities for students to tutor you. I got an excellent tutor that way, and paid him 250 an hour.

3

Last time I checked, TLI charges $400nt/hour for private lessons but the rate goes down if you buy a bunch at once. If the teacher has to go to your location, expect to pay more.

4

So if you can get one-on-one classes at a buxiban for 400 an hour, you should be able to get a tutor for that or less. Yes, they have to come to your house, but then their boss isn’t getting a cut. A friend of mine emailed Shida teachers, and he got two responses within a day from teachers willing to tutor him for 350 an hour.
An experienced teacher may well charge more - my teacher at TLI charged 700 an hour for private tutoring. One of my Taiwanese roommate charged 1,000 an hour for private Chinese tutoring, but then she had gotten jobs with expat families who didn’t know the financial realities of Taiwan - they figured since they would get that for a hour of English tutoring, she should get that for an hour of Chinese tutoring.
However, I don’t think an experienced Taiwanese teacher is going to be any better at teaching Chinese, unless you are completely clueless yourself about what to do - because the teaching methods they are accustomed to using are not very effective. IMO, it is better to get a young person with no experience who you can then train to teach the way you prefer.

5

Experienced tutors in Taipei are charging NT$400 to $500 per hour. You can probably negotiate a discount of say NT$50 an hour if you pay in advance and do a block of 6 hours. If the teacher has to travel across to Taipei to teach one hour it will be more. You could probably find a college student to tutor you for less but they might not have any experience. That could be good or bad.

In any event rates have gone up.

6

It depends on what you’re getting, though, as well.

The way I see it, in any language, you have a hierarchy of learning options:

  1. Books, tapes, podcasts – (usually) cheap, but not personalized at all. Most have almost no methodological underpinning at all – listen to this and see if you can acquire the language. No way to get questions answered or get additional examples.
  2. Well-meaning native speakers – cheap, but usually not very effective. Could come with personal and/or technical problems – non-standard language, no knowledge of Romanization, no idea about how to speak to foreigners, no idea about where to start teaching someone. Some people do just fine with this kind of semi-immersion, though. Usually cannot answer questions about the language because “I just speak it” or “That’s just what we say.”
  3. Accidental teachers – people who became teachers through the magic of a school’s training program or a 3-weekend “intensive institute”. They know something called Pinyin exists but they get it wrong frequently, or they can’t Romanize Taiwanese correctly. Their teaching usually centers on a textbook at the lower levels, and on a newspaper they bought on the way to class (or swiped from the student lounge) for the higher levels. They are more expensive than 1) and 2) but they do give more value, in that they have some concept of the technical aspects of the language and have thought about how to teach it. The low pay they generally receive usually drags down their enthusiasm after a period of time, and they increasingly “phone it in”, either failing to prepare for lessons and relying solely on the book, relying on “conversation” without structure, pairwork, students “making sentences” (造句）or dropping into the student’s native language for long periods of time. The student is basically responsible to organize things if he wants anything more than an animated version of the textbook.
  4. Boutique teachers – these are people who are teachers because they chose to be, and who have usually completed serious training in how to teach languages, in linguistics (phonetics is really useful to explain pronunciation, not just model it over and over and hope for the best) and curriculum development. They are the most expensive, since you’re paying for that education and expertise. Lessons are usually more customized and focus more on your individual goals, rather than a textbook’s content. There is more flexibility in what it means to “learn the language” (do you want to write, are there specific fields you need and others you really don’t, do you want to read?) but to be fair some of this comes from the non-school environment (they are not constrained by the regulations governing visas and scholarships, which demand a certain “well-rounded” program regardless of the student’s goals). Methodology will likely be anywhere from somewhat different to extremely different from the (single) methodology used in Taiwan’s buxibans, so if you’ve been unsuccessful learning in the buxiban environment, this gives you an option to go on, although it can be more expensive per-hour. Some students find that the per-unit-of-achievement (whatever that is for the individual) cost is lower with a boutique teacher, given that more can be done in less time.

I freely admit that I charge significantly more than NT$400-$500 an hour for Mandarin tutoring. That being said, I believe (and thus far, students who are in the target demographic have mostly agreed) that for the money I charge, the student really is getting something he cannot find in Taiwan (CI-based instruction, customized readings, personalized content, etc.) I’m a national-level demonstrator for this method in Mandarin Chinese and publish learning materials – most buxiban teachers don’t bother to make lesson plans. (Okay, that’s maybe an exaggeration, but you get my point. Most of them do what they have to do, and not much more, probably because the compensation is not very good. Can’t really blame them, in one regard.)

If you’re going to end up with the same thing that you could get in a buxiban for NT$500 an hour, of which the teacher gets maybe NT$200 if she’s lucky, then paying NT$300 an hour for a tutor is probably a good deal for everyone. But it will be pretty much “same-old, same-old”, which is why the price should be comparable. I think there’s room in the market for teachers at various price points, and the market will decide what one can charge in the long run. Many students will “experiment” with teachers at various price points, and combine them to come up with a solution that works for their particular situation over the long run.

In the end, it depends on YOU – your goals for learning Mandarin, your budget, and how much time you want to allot to getting to your goals (conversational, fluent, reader, writer, whatever.) But I do think learning programs are pretty much like anything else: you can have it fast, you can have it cheap, or you can have it done well. Choose any two.

7

Pretty much have to agree with every thing ironlady said… I would have just added the line “you get what you pay for” and “if you pay peanuts, you’ll only get monkeys” but that is likely just my tendency to communicate in cliche

8

If, if, if I could find a tutor who would prepare good lessons and teach me using CI-based instructions, I would be happy to pay more. But I’ve found that no matter what the pay is, the teachers are basically teaching the same way. I have had maybe a dozen Chinese teachers (some for a long time, some were just subs while the regular teacher was on vacation). More experience has not meant a better teacher, for me. The best by far was a university student who had never taught Chinese before, but who actually knew a lot about language, so was able to give explanations, and who did know pinyin well. But that was just chance, really - he was an intelligent guy with a good education, and was able to apply what he knew to our lessons. I did have a Taiwanese friend of mine ‘vet’ the tutor applicants, to check what kind of accent they had - I didn’t want someone with a very strong Taiwanese accent, but a slight one would have been OK.
But otherwise the teachers were basically like my teachers at TLI - yes, they had a lot of experience, but it was a lot of experience teaching in a way that most people from Western countries think is not effective.

If I could not afford the level 4 boutique teachers Ironlady mentions, then I would go with teacher number 2 - the well-meaning but clueless native speaker. And they should be cheaper than teacher number 3.

9

There is a subgroup of university (and ex-university) students who have never taught Chinese before but who are often surprisingly well-qualified to teach: people who themselves have studied or are studying (a) language(s) beyond the level of the “required curriculum”. For example, since i am learning Mandarin right know i have two such tutors at hand who are most helpful (can’t say anything about the rate, because we are doing a language exchange). One is fond of (and has studied in depth) the history of Chinese characters and is currently studying German to make the best of her intended stay in Germany as graduate student in multicultural studies (an international program where the language of instruction is English). The other one has spent a year in the US as graduate student in medical informatics and is currently studying Japanese while working as research assistant for one of her professors. Both are conversant in English and can usually answer my questions about Mandarin to my satisfaction. At least one of them can also speak Hoklo (i just realize i’ve not asked the other one yet). In addition to the language exchange we also socialize on occasion, often with one or more of their friends joining in, as well, and at those times we usually speak either all in English or all in Japanese (depending on who of the two is involved) and compare notes about life in Taiwan and other countries (some recent topics were related to food, family structure, working conditions and salaries, as well as how to prepare for living abroad). Paying those two tutors with my own skill and time looks like an all-around good deal. :wink: PS: Neither of my tutors know pinyin well, which is no problem, since i don’t need pinyin support - but thanks to one of them i am now using zhuyin with my cell phone…

10

My company offers online lessons via Skype for $600 NT per hour (purchasable in blocks of 5 hours via Paypal, credit card or ATM transfer). The block payment also includes a month of access to my online course (worth $600 NT). So the idea is that you do the online course in your spare time, and use the Skype lessons to confirm your understanding and practice what you’ve learned with a native Chinese, experienced teacher. At the end of each session, you will be emailed a recording of all the new vocabulary learned in that lesson.

I can provide you with testimonials of several students who have found this approach quite effective. I’m currently offering free one hour sessions for anyone wanting to try it out first. You can PM me for details.

11

I also think so. I don’t understand why so many people in this forum are like “Everybody in Taiwan has to learn Pinyin so that I have it easy”. Just learn Zhuyin yourself, folks, and no problem at all.

12

No, it’s not so much so someone has it easy, it’s simply the recognition that anyone who plans to go outside of Taiwan with his Mandarin will pretty much need to know Pinyin. Most of the international-standard tests feature it; most reference materials use it; most computers include it as an input method, and have the appropriate letters already on the keyboard; and certainly if you’re going to teach Chinese outside of Taiwan, you’d better know Pinyin inside-out.

There’s nothing wrong with learning zhuyin as well, but anyone who is serious about Chinese as a foreigner and intending to use it outside of Taiwan would do well to learn Pinyin.

13

Exactly - and i use pinyin with my computer and zhuyin with my cellphone… :slight_smile:

14

[quote=“ironlady”]
There’s nothing wrong with learning zhuyin as well, but anyone who is serious about Chinese as a foreigner and intending to use it outside of Taiwan would do well to learn Pinyin.[/quote]

Yes, that’s no problem. But you can learn Pinyin in 1 hour (compared to Zhuyin, which may take 2 hours) - provided you already know the sounds etc.
Nobody will teach you Hepburn if you learn Japanese, yet almost everybody can write it nonetheless.

I rather think that “my teacher has to know Pinyin, because I am to lazy to learn something” is a misconception. Of course, the teacher should provide what you want to learn (you are the customer after all), but I have two problems with this idea:

  1. You want to learn Chinese. How hard is learning Zhuyin in comparison to that?
  2. Often, the teacher is not a teacher (e.g. a friend or a language exchange). The time you need for looking someone who can use Pinyin, or tell him to learn Pinyin, you can rather use for yourself to learn Zhuyin. This will make it much easier in the end.

And if you learn Chinese with Zhuyin or Pinyin makes no difference. What good do all these super features of Pinyin (like Capitalization, connected (or not connected) syllables etc) in pure language learning, where you have to learn the characters? (One can argue how far characters are needed for learning, but if you want to do classic language learning (= “I want to use the language as close to the locals as possible), you have to learn reading and to some degree writing). Usually, Pinyin as well as Zhuyin would just be used to write the pronounciation of an unknown word, which is usually 1 or 2 syllables long and in many cases is not a name. Also, in these cases, the definition of a word (e.g. that a certain compound is a word, not two) is given by the text book, the teacher or some other context, but not by the pronounciation guide.

Thus, if you learn Chinese with Zhuyin or Pinyin, it makes no difference. The only difference is that if you know Zhuyin, you can “use” all the free language teachers in Taiwan, who don’t know about Pinyin.

15

Unless you want to type Chinese on a keyboard that is not set up for Zhuyin. :smiley:

16

[quote=“Hellstorm”]I rather think that “my teacher has to know Pinyin, because I am to lazy to learn something” is a misconception. Of course, the teacher should provide what you want to learn (you are the customer after all), but I have two problems with this idea:

  1. You want to learn Chinese. How hard is learning Zhuyin in comparison to that?
  2. Often, the teacher is not a teacher (e.g. a friend or a language exchange). The time you need for looking someone who can use Pinyin, or tell him to learn Pinyin, you can rather use for yourself to learn Zhuyin. This will make it much easier in the end.[/quote]
    Then maybe it’s time to look for a real teacher. This is the problem with using well-meaning native speakers as “teachers”. You don’t necessarily need to use a “real teacher” all the time, but it’s worth doing for a short time so that you can learn a basic skill that is central to the use of Chinese by non-native speakers around the world. Taiwan is a great place, but it’s very, very small in the scheme of Chinese language things, unless you are a resident and don’t intend to branch out into other locales ever.

Hmmm…well, first I’m honored that you’re now assuming that all Pinyin has helpful capitalization and so on – actually that’s just Tonally Orthographic Pinyin… :smiley: The answer is that you’re thinking traditionally (probably because you’re using those well-meaning native speakers as language teachers! :laughing: )

The most efficient way to acquire a language and become literate in it is to do just that – treat the two as separate entities (but sequentially overlapping, of course, to leverage what you know.) Doing extensive readings in Pinyin is also a great way to get more comprehensible input in Chinese, especially if you’re self-learning. It’s like an ideally modified form of listening. The Pinyin/Zhuyin issue is an interesting one – I’ve gone into more detail on my blog (Optimizing Immersion: What Good is Pinyin?).

Yes, that’s why I say there’s no harm in learning both. Again, if you move to newer methods of teaching/learning, you won’t spend a couple of hours of your life memorizing a set of symbols – you’d pick them up in the course of using language to acquire language. I don’t teach Pinyin (or zhuyin) to students; I just use it, go slowly enough for comprehension, and answer any questions (and point out salient points) when they come up. Class time is best spent with me giving the best input for acquisition that I can, not doing something that can be reduced to a chart.

17

[quote=“ironlady”]
Hmmm…well, first I’m honored that you’re now assuming that all Pinyin has helpful capitalization and so on – actually that’s just Tonally Orthographic Pinyin… :smiley: The answer is that you’re thinking traditionally (probably because you’re using those well-meaning native speakers as language teachers! :laughing: )

The most efficient way to acquire a language and become literate in it is to do just that – treat the two as separate entities (but sequentially overlapping, of course, to leverage what you know.) Doing extensive readings in Pinyin is also a great way to get more comprehensible input in Chinese, especially if you’re self-learning. It’s like an ideally modified form of listening. The Pinyin/Zhuyin issue is an interesting one – I’ve gone into more detail on my blog (Optimizing Immersion: What Good is Pinyin?). [/quote]

Well, I didn’t talk about tonally orthographic pinyin. What I said about helpful capitalization is more like “how do I spot a name in a text”. I always wonder why Pinyin didn’t adopt German style capitalization: Spell all nouns in capital letters. That would be so helpful.

I am also sometimes in favour of Pinyin (or Zhuyin) only texts, to train your vocabulary style in a clear way: With characters, you don’t have to know the pronounciation, instead, you can only rely on the characters, which may give you problems when hearing. With listening, you may know the vocabulary, but you cannot yet recognize it in spoken form, which may give the need for some phonetic spelling.

But actually, I think this can be combined: for the easy of reading, just use characters in general, but words which you want the student to practice, type in Zhuyin or Pinyin (here, Zhuyin would just look nicer, because Pinyin in a Chinese text looks ugly as hell). That way, you can practice these words, without having to have the whole text in a phonetic spelling.

18

In my experience, try a furriner with Chinese skills and western teaching methods, pay him/her the going English teaching rates, and get your money’s worth!

I have had two furriner tutors, and two from the local universities Chinese department. I wanted a refund from the local university. I paid all of them 550 an hour.

19

Coudn’t agree more*). Ironlady comes to mind. And how about the friend of the dragon? And there are a few more around here (but perhaps most of them are too busy with other things)… anyway, before long i’ll be on that list, too :wink: (i’ve learned both “eastern” and “western” languages and teaching methods).

*) obligatory notice of disclosure: i don’t have an unbiased opinion, since i am in the language business, too - self-employed :wink:

20

Along with what Ironlady said about the different categories of teachers, it depends on your level mostly. When I first started learning Mandarin in Beijing, I found it far more useful to get help from other foreigners that were actually good at Chinese to explain to me very clearly the pronunciation of Mandarin sounds (there aren’t that many of them), the importance of tones, simple grammar, etc. Granted, at that time I was in the nihao class, but I really felt it was better to have a clear explanation from another foreigner that had gone through the same thing I did. Now, my Mandarin is better than most foreigners I meet on a daily basis so of course I would want a native speaker (preferably not one that has a thick Taiwanese accent), but in the beginning I think it was a wise choice for me.

If you already know bopomofo, try for a local uni student that can speak more ‘standardized’ and just use bopomofo with them. This way you aren’t paying the ‘premium’ for the teaching knowing pinyin. But, then that falls into the well-meaning native speaker category.

Don’t get caught up in the “Taiwan writes Traditional Characters and is great because Taiwanese Mandarin retains its culture” crap they feed you here. Truth is that all of Taiwan has less of a population than Beijing alone. Not saying Beijing accent is nice to listen to by any means, but try to look for a teacher that won’t feed you a super Taiwanese accent and you can’t distinguish z zh, s sh, c ch, etc. I’ve had some great teachers here in the past at Shi-Da. My favorite teacher is a bit…quirky haha, and her English is pretty good. She never got bitchy at me for writing simplified or whatever, and she has a nice flat accent. She wrote me a really nice letter of recommendation a while back, as well. If you want her info, just PM me.

Really, it just comes down to what you want. Unfortunately, there isn’t a way to not learn writing at the language centers here (at least the visa ones). If I didn’t have to waste my time rote memorizing characters, I would probably be fluent by now. :slight_smile: