Where do we draw the line?

Thought for the day.

Where Do We Draw the Line?
by Jan Allegretti

In Jining, China, sixteen humans have died of rabies since the beginning of the year. An order is issued to kill all dogs within five kilometers of each of those deaths. Rabies squads arrive with clubs and pitchforks, pull dogs from their families, and cart the bodies away.

In Petaluma, Calif., diners clink glasses filled with cabernet, and toast the chef as they savor their filet mignon. Ten minutes outside of town cows cry out as they’re prodded through a chute where the smell of their companions’ blood wafts from just beyond the corner. Twenty-five minutes later their hip muscles have been carved into steaks and wrapped neatly in supermarket-ready plastic wrap.

In St. Charles, Ill., a seven-year-old child walks up to a counter and orders a peanut butter fudge ice cream cone. While the sweet treat melts down his chin, twenty miles away a thirty-hour-old calf stands frightened, cold, calling for his mother. From a distance Mother answers his calls, while the milking machine pulls at her udders.

In Sulahuddin Province, Iraq, American soldiers are told they’ll meet heavy enemy fire as they enter an island encampment. A sergeant gives the order to kill all military-age men. The helicopter lands as dawn breaks, and the soldiers meet an eerie quiet. One elderly Iraqi man peers through a window. Shots are fired, and the man crumples to the floor. The soldiers find two more men and two women in the house. Before the Americans leave, all three Iraqi men are dead. Still, no “enemy fire” has been received.

We are a species accustomed to noticing the differences between others and ourselves -and “other” can mean almost anyone. If someone looks different, walks differently, speaks a different language or doesn’t speak at all, we draw a line—“us” vs. “them.”

For those on the other side of the line, the rules are different. We treat them differently, and expect them to behave as we want them to behave. At the least we expect them to agree with us. At the most, we expect them to give their lives to meet our needs, to satisfy our wants, or to quell our fears. And because they are different, we take license to treat them as we will. Our laws say it’s okay. Our consciences accept it because we deny who they are - if they look different, walk differently, speak differently, surely they don’t feel the things we feel, or want the things we want. And if they’re out of our sight, in a country far away or on a farm somewhere down the road, their fears and pain remain hidden just beyond the edge of our awareness.

Each of us draws our lines in different places, and we move them as we move through life. We all have our reasons. Sometimes it’s a conscious choice. Sometimes it’s what we were taught. Sometimes the lines are so deeply woven into the fabric of our culture that we don’t even see the grid.

If you’re reading this, dogs are probably on the near side of your line. Maybe cows are, too. Or maybe not. Maybe they weren’t when you were a child. Maybe they will be some time down the road. Could be one of those soldiers played with a dark-haired, dark-skinned child when he was young; now dark hair and skin have come to mean “other,” and another line is drawn.

All these lines have one thing in common. They obscure the ways we’re all the same. A baby cow cries for his mother, a grown-up cow tries desperately to escape the knife that will slit his throat. A dog feels terror as the club comes crashing down, and a young Iraqi man prays to his God as his blood stains the sand. Where are the differences? Where should we draw the lines?

Yawn!
You’re linking milking a cow to killing in Iraq?
Worst. Propaganda. Ever.

[quote=“Josefus”]Yawn!
You’re linking milking a cow to killing in Iraq?
Worst. Propaganda. Ever.

[/quote]

For those of us with a greater sense of humanity, there is no difference. Killing, abuse, torture, cruelty - all these are wrong, no matter what being they are performed upon.

I suppose everyone who eats haburgers and eats milk is somehow less humane than you? :moo:

I suppose everyone who eats haburgers and eats milk is somehow less humane than you? :moo:[/quote]

FOR A SECOND, you could have tried to ponder about the pain and distress any kind of creature living on this planet can feel.

Your lack of compassion is what makes you less humane (nothing to do with eating burgers) :fume:

The pain in milking a cow? OH THE HUMANITY!

There’s over a billion cows in India releasing the largest supply of methane into the atmosphere, and devouring tons of feed each day while people die, yet the animal rights activists don’t seem to be bitching about that.

How about the pain of a mosquito after I spank it for sucking my blood?
The leetch that’s stuck on me when I get out of the lake?
A cockroach after I squash it when I see one in the house?

Should I consider their pain too? I’m a cold hearted bastard if I should.

Excuse me. I’m going to get my fur coat and roll around on my bed with it.

[quote=“Josefus”]

There’s over a billion cows in India releasing the largest supply of methane into the atmosphere, and devouring tons of feed each day while people die, yet the animal rights activists don’t seem to be bitching about that.

.[/quote]

Get your nukes ready then… :unamused:

Nonsense.
We wouldn’t be able to eat all that beef if we nuked it. :hungry:

I suppose everyone who eats haburgers and eats milk is somehow less humane than you? :moo:[/quote]

Not necessarily, but those who think that it’s wrong to kill humans but OK to torture non-human animals are clearly less humane. No?

I suppose everyone who eats haburgers and eats milk is somehow less humane than you? :moo:[/quote]

Not necessarily, but those who think that it’s wrong to kill humans but OK to torture non-human animals are clearly less humane. No?[/quote]

Agreed.
But there is a difference between skinning live dogs in China, and milking a cow. No?

[quote=“Josefus”]How about the pain of a mosquito after I spank it for sucking my blood?
The leetch that’s stuck on me when I get out of the lake?
A cockroach after I squash it when I see one in the house?

Should I consider their pain too? I’m a cold hearted bastard if I should.[/quote]

I’m wondering now if you understand what is involved in mass meat production. If you have to kill an animal for food or to stop the spread of disease or to prevent your own suffering, I can understand that. But torturing animals for greater profits? Incomprehensible to me.

Clearly you draw the line a lot closer to yourself than I would.

[quote=“Stray Dog”]
Not necessarily, but those who think that it’s wrong to kill humans but OK to torture non-human animals are clearly less humane. No?[/quote]

It’s not that so much as the article plays the guilt game. I’m for animal rights, but like those PETA protesters at Christmas time who throw paint on people in furs and expect me to feel for animal rights, won’t get it that way from me, at least.

[quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“Stray Dog”]
Not necessarily, but those who think that it’s wrong to kill humans but OK to torture non-human animals are clearly less humane. No?[/quote]

It’s not that so much as the article plays the guilt game. I’m for animal rights, but like those PETA protesters at Christmas time who throw paint on people in furs and expect me to feel for animal rights, won’t get it that way from me, at least.[/quote]

There are many ways of tackling the widespread abuse of animals for profit, fun, or convenience, and while some methods have more of my support than others, I commend all of them for doing something.

Agreed.
Food should be killed as quickly and as humanely as possibly.
The fresher it is, the better.
Torture is wrong.

Not only being killed but bred as humanly as possible.

Mow that I can agree with… :smiley:


I hate Americans (or Canadians) who go out hunting for fun. If it’s for survival, I can understand, but to kill a bunch of animals just to prove you can do it, angers me.

TainanCowboy, that picture you posted REALLY pisses me off!!! :fume:

I was a vegan for about 3 years. After about 9 years of eating meat again, I became vegetarian. Who knows how long it will last.

As for eating meat, I see no difference between eating dogs, cats, horses, or cows. These animals are no different; it’s people that create ethical categories.

What tickles me is the smile on the guy’s face. He seems quite proud of himself. I’m talking about the guy on the left in the picture.

Do like me, SherryX, convince yourself that the picture is a photoshop job. :wink:

I hope it was a photoshop job, rather than the real thing, because that picture is quite disturbing. :frowning: