I just finished watching this video from Serpentza who used to live in China and even came to Taiwan a few times.
I know a bit about the problems with South Africa, but many South African friends are telling me “it’s not that bad.” What do South African Forumosans think? Any experiences? Or is it just hype?
I’ve heard Asian south africans get it even worse than whites as they’re seen as the ones with the most money.
I have a Taiwanese friend who came home from school to see his parents tied up with guns pointed at their heads in SA. They moved back to Taiwan shortly afterwards.
South Africa sounds awful I’d never want to go there, not a fan of anywhere with high crime after experiencing how nice it is to live somewhere as safe as Taiwan.
Well, nominally President Trump welcomes them. I wonder why the selective sympathy? Don’t answer that - it’s a rhetorical question. Musk is a very patriotic man who only wants the best for his fellow countrymen.
I know it is rhetorical… But I find it strange that many of the Afghan refugees for example will often go back to Afghanistan for holidays after getting Australian citizenship… Is it just safe for holidays but not for living there?
Or… (and I dare say) were they just not really genuine but rather economic? (I guess they did pass on a few “safe” countries.)
Either way though… it seems more selective that countries aren’t willing to accept that there are white skinned refugees… Kind of like when some bank workers in Taiwan get stumped when they see a white guy with a Taiwan ID card lol
Yes. And I know South Africans who left for this reason.
Not necessarily ‘Safe’ but a short stint might be fairly low risk.
The nature and nuance of the danger they are fleeing can make the difference.
Political refugees, targeted refugees are not going to return.
The nature of South Africa’s danger is that it’s rather indiscriminatory. Living there will mean you eventually become a victim of crime, but it’s OK to be back for a week or two to see family.
Whereas a place like China, a refugee is likely to be a victim of the state and the state is all encompassing in China.
Family is still important. It’s still their home.
Maybe they don’t want their children going to schools there or even growing up in that environment. But a 2 week vacation is OK. Millions of people tour Angkor Wat every year but nobody wants to actually immigrate to Cambodia.
They aren’t exactly refugees fleeing a war zone anymore if they feel comfortable enough to return for holidays. If it’s safe enough for a vacation, then the narrative of being forced to flee becomes a bit questionable.
If your grandparents were refugees fleeing Nazi-occupied France, their situation was completely different from many modern Afghan asylum seekers. They weren’t leaving for economic reasons, they were escaping a real, immediate threat to their lives. But once the war ended, France fundamentally changed, the Nazis were defeated, the Vichy regime was dismantled, and democracy was restored. That’s why it made sense for them to return for visits… because the danger was gone.
Now compare that to Afghanistan. The Taliban is still in power. The very same regime that many asylum seekers claim to be fleeing is still running the country. And yet, despite this, many are choosing to return for vacations. If Afghanistan is still controlled by the Taliban and supposedly too dangerous to live in, why are they going back?
I have no problem with those who have built a life in Australia and want to stay. If they’ve made a new home and contribute to society, good for them. But I do have a problem with the same people going on vacations to Afghanistan while thousands of others are still applying for asylum, claiming they face persecution.
I also have a problem with people applying for asylum not because of actual danger, but because they don’t want to raise their kids there. Wanting better opportunities or a different environment for your children is not a valid asylum claim, that’s called economic migration. If that’s the case, apply through normal immigration channels like skilled work permits, family sponsorship, or investment visas like everyone else. Asylum is meant for people who are in immediate danger and will be slaughtered if they don’t flee, not as a backdoor to immigration.
It can’t be both ways. Either Afghanistan is so dangerous that people genuinely need asylum, or it’s safe enough to visit, in which case, why are we still accepting asylum claims? Genuine refugees don’t take vacations in the country they supposedly had to flee. Your grandparents returned to a liberated, democratic France, Afghan asylum seekers are returning to the same Taliban-controlled Afghanistan they claimed was too dangerous to stay in. That’s what doesn’t add up.
How many refugees visit the country they’re seeking asylum from? I’ve never seen any data on this so it would be interesting.
I’m from SA but have already been here almost half my life. My mom and 2 of my brothers are still there (southwest coast, Knysna/Plett) and another is in San Diego.
South Africa has many problems, but it’s also an amazing place. Cape Town (my university city) was voted best city in the world
There’s also incredible natural beauty, excellent schools, good food (and wine) and so much more. If you get past the news headlines it’s still a great place to live in or visit.
There seems to be a lot of farmers who are murdered in South Africa. The general murder rate is 45 per 100,000. Farm murders are somewhere between 97 and 133 per 100,000.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but let’s put it in a family life scenario. If Taiwan gets invaded and my children leave. Once the war is over and China still controls Taiwan, unless they are on the hit list, they may still want to come see their family, whom they love, from time to time. I don’t see why one would hold that against someone to be honest. The risk is of their own, and frankly is a very reasonable risk to take. Love.
People travel to dangerous places all the time just for a beach visit, it’s their right to do so. No grand conspiracy or need to revoke/question citizenship because they make bad decisions in some people’s opinions.
The need for family runs VERY deep with many people. I understand the need. Especially if one isn’t currently an “activist” against the current party in charge, it may be easier. Afghanistan is still kind of a messed up place, but the US war aspect has already changed. For better or worse, that’s irrelevant. Some people may feel more safe without a foreign war machine in their country, even though terrorists are now running it.
Ukrainians that fled might also want to go back and see grandma, even before Russia pulls out. It’s a very understandable scenario…
Afghanistan is still kind of a messed up place? Well, yes.
I agree with @VeryGreatLunch on this. I’d like to see numbers before reaching a conclusion.
Joost Strydom, the spokesman for Orania, an Afrikaner-only town in South Africa gives his view:
At least the number “80%” that Musk recently touted (and that lots of enraged people have in mind) is utter bullshit. As expected.
Sorry had a mistake in the URL, works now
An update from Reuters: more and more white South Africans in the US now find South Africa to simply be a better place to live.
Guy
