I actually don’t think 1,800-2,000NT is “really very reasonable”. Maybe it’s “really very reasonable” for Taipei when compared to other places in Taipei, but then I would say Taipei is ridiculously expensive. The reason I say that is that if you look at the hourly rate of an average worker in Taipei, it’s what, 6-10 times what they make? Where I’m from, Melbourne, Australia, the average person probably makes $30/hour (AUD). I actually don’t think people would consider $180-$300 for a hotel room to be “really very reasonable” in Melbourne. How do hotel prices compare to local wages in the U.S., Canada, the U.K., etc.?
Hotels in Taipei seem to be disproportionately when compared to other things such as food or transportation, and especially when compared to those in other parts of Taiwan or in other countries. I’ve found places for a quarter of the price in other cities in Taiwan, yet I don’t think workers in those cities earn a quarter of what those in Taipei do.
I actually don’t think 1,800-2,000NT is “really very reasonable”. Maybe it’s “really very reasonable” for Taipei when compared to other places in Taipei, but then I would say Taipei is ridiculously expensive. [/quote]
I need to stay in a hotel in Edinburgh for a couple nights later this year. I’m looking at around NT$4,600+ per night for a twin with a 3-year-old. That’s the cheapest and in a NOT nice part of town. Average seems to be around 250 quid (NT$11,600). So yeah, Feiren’s quite right. Cheap as chips!
Not sure why I used Edinburgh, of course, any more than I can figure out the relevance of Melbourne prices, but there you go…
Also I said reasonable for Taipei. Hotels in Taipei are more expensive than those elsewhere in Taiwan just like hotels in New York or San Francisco are more expensive than elsewhere in the US. Of course the reason is that land is far more expensive in Taipei than other places in Taiwan and labor is somewhat more expensive.
I agree with the other posters who think hotels in Taiwan are generally a good deal. In a major US city, it can be hard to find a room for less than US$120 per night (NT$3,300). In NY or SF, that would be more like $150 per night.
Feiren: I’m basing it purely upon how much the median wage would be. The median hourly wage in Taiwan is (based upon 40,000NTD/month) about 230NTD/hour. It’s probably higher in Taipei, though I don’t know.
jimipresley: What’s the average hourly wage in South Africa?
jimipresley: What’s the average hourly wage in South Africa?[/quote]
That’s moot, though, GiT. What’s the average hourly wage of people who tend to stay in hotels? They’re not there to cater to the downtrodden, mate. The target market of the hotel industry is not the working classes. It exists to make a killing off of the rich and the impulsive.
When the down-at-heel take a vacation every second year, they tend to stay in self-catering motels or campsites (far more sensible options, anyway).
If you base the hotel rates on GDP rather than median wage, you’d find that the hotels are indeed quite affordable. As I’m sure you’re aware, Taipei has one of the highest per capita GDP rates in Asia - excluding Japan.
US average hourly wage is $10.22. The average hotel room in SF in US$176. So hourly wage is 5% of average hotel room.
Average monthly earning in Taiwan are NT$44k per month. If we assume the average person works 50 hours a week, then the average wage is something like NT$220 per hour. If the average Taipei hote is NT$2,000 per night, that’s 9% of the average hotel room. Even for Taiwanese people, that makes Taipei hotel rooms more affordable.
US minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. That’s 4% of an SF hotel room.
Taiwan minimum wage is NT$95. That’s 4.75% of a Taipei hotel room. So it’s about the same for people on the bottom and cheaper for the average person.
Wow, things must be pretty good in Australia then, because for hotels to be similarly expensive, a very reasonable hotel room in say, Melbourne or Sydney would have to cost 631 AUD. They definitely don’t cost that. A quick check revealed that you can get a fully serviced, two bedroom apartment close to the city for 320 AUD. There are probably even cheaper options available.
I don’t think hotel rooms have any comparison with locals’ hourly wages … it’s a demand market, high demand makes high prices, low makes prices fall … ever been to HK during exhibition season … ?
In Taipei lots of foreign companies want rooms during exhibitions … locals don’t stay in their own city at hotels … they go to fancy motels to have, well ‘private time’. And they are cheap.
BTW, major Taipei hotels have/had special promotion prices for locals during off season …
And the prices mentioned are cheap for Taipei. They will get more expensive when more Chinese come to visit Taiwan.
If you base the hotel rates on GDP rather than median wage, you’d find that the hotels are indeed quite affordable. As I’m sure you’re aware, Taipei has one of the highest per capita GDP rates in Asia - excluding Japan.
Yes, but people in Taipei wouldn’t generally stay in Taipei hotels . I guess you might work for the Taipei Times, nice critical thinking there.
Anyway…there is a big income gap in Taiwan and a large population squeezed onto a small island. Not only Taipei hotels but resort hotels and hot springs and B&Bs are high priced all over the island…compared to average wage. The average price of a B&B is 4000 NTD on the weekend, a resort hotel or leisure hotel 5000-10,000 NTD a nigh. They mainly service the self employed, government workers and retired government folk and their families, not regular workers in general. That’s fine for them because that’s still 20% of the population I guess…up to 4 million people on a given weekend. The other reason why rates are so high is Taiwan has very few public and private holidays, the most many people can get is 5 days in a row in any one year. Therefore vacation time is squeezed into weekends and short breaks, mostly in Taiwan. The lack of low priced airlines to HK etc. doesn’t help either.
[quote=“jimipresley”][quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]jimi: I’m talking about PPP.
[wikipedia]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity[/wikipedia][/quote]
Then may I humbly suggest that you change your thread title to reflect that more clearly?[/quote]
The title isn’t directly his doing. I split this from another thread and grabbed some text from the post as a title.
GiT, my country’s PPP is one tenth of Taiwan’s and hotels are always twice as much expensive as Taipei. Tourist trap. So, for me, the rate for hotels here is high but doable.
For example, as a local or localized furriner -meaning not a tourist or business traveler with fat expense account- while visiting you have the mintzu or hostel option. In a pinch, what in Spanish we call a “push” motel would do. But neither is cheapie cheapie per se. I understand your surprise, because this city is not a tourist mecca. But overall, Taipei is an expensive city: the 7th if I am not mistaken, in Asia. And also 7th in tourist growth, so, the prices are not turning the visitors away.
[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]Hotels in Taipei seem to be disproportionately when compared to other things such as food or transportation, and especially when compared to those in other parts of Taiwan or in other countries. I’ve found places for a quarter of the price in other cities in Taiwan, yet I don’t think workers in those cities earn a quarter of what those in Taipei do.
Why, then, is Taipei so expensive for hotels?[/quote]
Why? Capitalism. Supply and demand. The free market. You know, the kind of stuff conservatives and libertarians are all gung ho for.
Chris: I understand the economics of it. This might also come as a surprise to you, but many of my views on this matter might actually be considered liberal. The difference is though that I don’t want to force my views on others. So, whilst I say that I think the prices are high compared to average salaries, I don’t want to force the prices to be lowered or salaries to be increased.
HH: Obviously, people in Taipei aren’t going to stay in a hotel in Taipei. You missed my point entirely. My point was simply that all these people here keep talking about how expensive things are for the average person in their country. There are certainly some things that are high in Australia (e.g. housing), but the average person can afford to travel within Australia. From conversations I’ve had with Canadians, French, Germans, Swedes and others, it seems that’s possible in those countries also.
As I mentioned above, to Chris, I don’t propose to enforce any solution. However, it doesn’t sit well with me that there are essentially two Taiwans. Obviously, every country has disparities, and sometimes in differing areas. For instance, I think the health care and education systems in this country go a good way towards being egalitarian (although they are mandated). It doesn’t sit well with me that an average person on an average salary has to pay a lot to stay in a supposedly cheap hotel within their own country. It doesn’t sit well with me that people get very little time off from work, either on the weekend or for proper vacation time. Something that I think is interesting on that note is the way in which people in this country call the weekend holidays. I don’t think it’s just a matter of getting the vocabulary wrong. I think they think about time off from work in a fundamentally different way.
It seems that in this country, there are two Taiwans. The number 9 highway runs through the town in which I teach. The elementary school is on that road. Every day, all day, people tear arse through our town. Yesterday, at the end of the school day, a whole bunch of kids were waiting to cross the road. There were “traffic wardens” with vests and flags. Still these arseholes tore arse through the town. Again, it’s indicative of how there is a certain “fuck you” attitude by people with size (vehicle), power or money towards those who lack those things. It doesn’t sit well with me and it seems somewhat indicative of being a third world country that there is such a disparity between wealth and power. Again, I wouldn’t seek to try to legislate that away though.
I actually don’t think 1,800-2,000NT is “really very reasonable”. Maybe it’s “really very reasonable” for Taipei when compared to other places in Taipei, but then I would say Taipei is ridiculously expensive. The reason I say that is that if you look at the hourly rate of an average worker in Taipei, it’s what, 6-10 times what they make? Where I’m from, Melbourne, Australia, the average person probably makes $30/hour (AUD). I actually don’t think people would consider $180-$300 for a hotel room to be “really very reasonable” in Melbourne. How do hotel prices compare to local wages in the U.S., Canada, the U.K., etc.?
Hotels in Taipei seem to be disproportionately when compared to other things such as food or transportation, and especially when compared to those in other parts of Taiwan or in other countries. I’ve found places for a quarter of the price in other cities in Taiwan, yet I don’t think workers in those cities earn a quarter of what those in Taipei do.
Why, then, is Taipei so expensive for hotels?[/quote]
you’re unnecessarily whinging.
your hourly rate comparison is fatally flawed.
the target market of Taipei hotels is not the local population but the typical traveler to Taiwan. And that is more than likely a Mainland package tourist, a Japanese traveler or a business traveler. The price those people are willing to pay falls well in line with what hotels charge. Taipei hotels are pretty reasonable compared with other places (unless you are comparing to SE Asia, but lets hope that you haven’t made that mistake).
. I guess you might work for the Taipei Times, nice critical thinking there.