Even the British government uses 英國 for their consulates and embassies in China/TW. Look at this picture here where the current branding campaign of “This is GREAT Britain” becomes “GREAT 英國” (GREAT England)：
大不列顛 - Great Britain
聯合國王 - United Kingdom
英格蘭 - England
蘇格蘭 - Scotland
威爾斯 - Wales
北愛爾蘭 - Northern Ireland
I am pretty sure that the vast majority of Taiwanese people wouldn’t have a clue what you were talking about if you used any of the above terms. However mention “英國” - “啊，我知道啦”.
If I was Scottish, Irish or Welsh I guess that I would be pretty upset about this. Luckily, I’m from 英國.
If it makes you feel any better, the “real” name for English in Chinese as far as Taiwan is concerned (as listed on the BOCA web site) is 大不列顛暨北愛爾蘭聯合王國, with the first part, Dà BùLièDIĀN, is a phonetic for “Great Britain”, as you said.
But who wants to write or say all that? And you can’t force people to use any sort of language, for the most part. They’re going to say what they want.
Even the British government uses 英國 for their consulates and embassies in China/TW. Look at this picture here where the current branding campaign of “This is GREAT Britain” becomes “GREAT 英國” (GREAT England)：
[/quote]
英國, 法國 translation came from 清朝 at least during Opium war. Maybe the first British missionaries addressed themselves as English. The 1st syllable ‘Eng’ became the nation they belong to.
On the other hand, Americans came from 美國 2nd syllable), instead of '阿國‘ （1st syllable). It is not pure logical.
[quote=“fh2000”][quote=“Milkybar_Kid”]As per the title really.
Even the British government uses 英國 for their consulates and embassies in China/TW. Look at this picture here where the current branding campaign of “This is GREAT Britain” becomes “GREAT 英國” (GREAT England)：
[/quote]
英國, 法國 translation came from 清朝 at least during Opium war. Maybe the first British missionaries addressed themselves as English. The 1st syllable ‘Eng’ became the nation they belong to.
On the other hand, Americans came from 美國 2nd syllable), instead of '阿國‘ （1st syllable). It is not pure logical.[/quote]
They could have chose less complementary characters than 英，德，法，美 though. We just named them after some pottery .No idea if what I’m saying is true though
I’d say it’s closer to the way many people referred to the old USSR as Russia. Basically everyone knew that the “real” state was the Soviet Union, and that Russia was just the biggest part of it - but many people used to say Russia anyway. In my experience the English-language usage of “England”, as opposed to “the UK”, is similar. I assume that Ukrainians and Lithuanians used to get as pissed off about this as Scottish and Welsh people surely do now - and it’s probably not far off the way many Latin Americans feel when “America” is used to refer exclusively to the United States, rather than to the Americas as a whole.
My own usage depends who I’m talking to. My natural usage is “England”, secondarily “the UK”, and very occasionally “Britain” (I’m Canadian, and my parents are from the Manchester area), but if I’m talking to someone from Great Britain, I certainly try to remember to be careful with whether I’m using Britain, England, Wales, or whatever.
I’m not sure what people think here in Taiwan. If a knowledgeable person says 英國, what country are they thinking of?
[quote=“Hokwongwei”][quote=“lostinasia”]
I’m not sure what people think here in Taiwan. If a knowledgeable person says 英國, what country are they thinking of?[/quote]
The UK. England on its own is 英格蘭.[/quote]
Thanks!
I’d say it’s closer to the way many people referred to the old USSR as Russia. Basically everyone knew that the “real” state was the Soviet Union, and that Russia was just the biggest part of it - but many people used to say Russia anyway. [/quote]
Or ‘Holland’, which is a great way to annoy most Dutch (which is just as misleading for people from the Netherlands).
Most names for countries/nationalities were set centuries ago, before the finer distinctions (i.e. Scotland/Welsh/English and possibly at the time, Irish) became an issue. Why should any one have cared (at the time) what some foreigners think of what you call them?
That’s true. People in Ming China (may have) wondered why they were called Chinese. “I’m clearly from the Great Ming Empire.”
Japanese and Korean people today likely wonder similar questions. Japan (in Japanese) = Nihon or less frequently Nippon; Korea (in Korean) = Hanguk or the full name: Daehan Minguk.
That’s true. People in Ming China (may have) wondered why they were called Chinese. “I’m clearly from the Great Ming Empire.”
Japanese and Korean people today likely wonder similar questions. Japan (in Japanese) = Nihon or less frequently Nippon; Korea (in Korean) = Hanguk or the full name: Daehan Minguk.[/quote]
Does anyone know why China used such complementary characters for UK, France, Germany but didn’t really carry on with this trend elsewhere? Maybe Thailand as well
That’s true. People in Ming China (may have) wondered why they were called Chinese. “I’m clearly from the Great Ming Empire.”
Japanese and Korean people today likely wonder similar questions. Japan (in Japanese) = Nihon or less frequently Nippon; Korea (in Korean) = Hanguk or the full name: Daehan Minguk.[/quote]
Does anyone know why China used such complementary characters for UK, France, Germany but didn’t really carry on with this trend elsewhere? Maybe Thailand as well[/quote]
I recall from my Chinese history classes in college that the original Chinese names for England, France, Germany and some other Western countries were actually very unfavorable. I don’t remember the specific Hanzi, but seem to recall my professor saying that the original Chinese names meant things like “Dog County” “Snake County” and “Rat County.” I don’t recall if these old Chinese names were meant to bear any similarity in sound to the native names (the way Yingguo and Faguo sound a little like England and France).
During the 1800s/colonial era, the English, French and Germans realized the derogatory names that China had for their nations. Among the many other matters that they were able to impose on China, the Western powers made China adopt names that were more complimentary. And thus we have the Heroic Country (England), the Virtuous Country (Germany) and the Law/Ruling Country (France, a reference to the Napoleonic Code perhaps?)