Hey Mister-can’t-stand-the-oil of the local food, I had Hakka food twice yesterday: once for lunch and once for dinner. And I feel great,
great
,
great
…Huh? Oh sorry, just dozed off again. Don’t know why I feel so lethargic today.
[quote=“Bodo”][quote=“Tyc00n”][quote=“beautifulspam”]
Of course if you cut the fat out of your diet your stomach won’t be used to digesting fats. But why did you cut the fat in the first place?
Once again, assumptions. Fat is bad. Calories are evil.
Look, it is one of the wonders of industrialization that once-scarce proteins and fats are now abundant. Enjoy them! We humans are stronger, taller and healthier now than at any time in our history. And yet so many people in the “health food” movement seem eager to revert to an anemic, pre-industrial diet of boiled leaves and tree bark. :loco:
[/quote]
You are talking a load of shyte. Its true that we humans are stronger, taller and healthier now than at any time in our history, because of medical breakthroughs. Not because of diet.
The leading cause of death in the West is heart attack primarily caused by poor diet resulting from excessive cholesterol and saturdated fat (often combined with a lack of exercise).[/quote]
Have to disagree with you Tycoon. People who are nutrition deficient are shorter than those who aren’t. We ARE taller than our ancestors. I was shocked, for example, when I visited Gettysburg Battlefield (a famous battle in the US civil war for those who aren’t Americans), and I saw the uniforms of Confederates and Union soldiers that had been preserved and were on display. These MEN were my size or smaller (5’8" and 140-160 pounds). Nutrition and the technologies that have made food abundant have had more to do with our stature these days than medical breakthroughs. Medical breakthroughs as in medicinals, and surgeries have allowed us to live longer lives.
[/quote]
Yes… if you read all the posts, you’d see where I admitted that medical breakthroughs probably have little or no effect on height. Nutrition and genes are almost solely dependent on height… but the issue we are discussing is not height. Its health…
My view and I standby this, is that the biggest single indicator of a populations health is its longevity, not its height! There are plenty of western people who die in their 40’s due to excess fat. They were tall sure (I’m pretty sure they had all the right nutrients too)… but they were also unhealthy.
I think the direction of the relationship is the other way around - height is dependent upon genes and proper nutrition. 
I posted my response before I read your admissions/concessions to the height argument. While you are welcome to your opinion, it contradicts science and what medical professionals use to assess the nutritional status of populations. I provided links to the evidence I am basing my assertions upon in my last post.
I don’t disagree with you that being obese is unhealthy. It is a fact that in developed countries, obesity, and correlated conditions such as non-insulin dependent diabetes and heart disease, is fast becoming one of the top health problems. However, you are incorrect about your assertion that dietary fat is the most important cause of these problems.
[quote]“[url=http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fats.html]Eat a low-fat, low-cholesterol diet.” Most of us have heard this simple recommendation so often over the past two decades that we can recite it in our sleep. Touted as a way to lose weight and prevent cancer and heart disease, it’s no wonder much of the nation - and food producers - hopped on board.
Unfortunately, this simple message is now largely out of date. Detailed research -much of it done at Harvard - shows that the total amount of fat in the diet, whether high or low, isn’t really linked with disease. What really matters is the type of fat in the diet. New results from the large and long Women’s Health Initiative Dietary Modification Trial showed that eating a low-fat diet for 8 years did not prevent heart disease, breast cancer, or colon cancer, and didn’t do much for weight loss, either.(1-4)
What is becoming clearer and clearer is that bad fats, meaning saturated and trans fats, increase the risk for certain diseases while good fats, meaning monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats, lower the risk. The key is to substitute good fats for bad fats.
And cholesterol in food? Although it is still important to limit the amount of cholesterol you eat, especially if you have diabetes, dietary cholesterol isn’t nearly the villain it’s been portrayed to be. Cholesterol in the bloodstream is what’s most important. High blood cholesterol levels greatly increase the risk for heart disease. But the average person makes about 75% of blood cholesterol in his or her liver, while only about 25% is absorbed from food. The biggest influence on blood cholesterol level is the mix of fats in the diet.[/url].[/quote]
[quote]Various factors contribute to an individual’s longevity. Significant factors in life expectancy include genetics, access to health care, hygiene, diet, exercise and lifestyle. Below is a list of life expectancies in different types of countries[1]:
First World: . . . 77-83 years (eg. Canada: 80.1 years, 2005 est)
Third World:. . . 35-60 years (eg. Mozambique: 40.3 years, 2005 est)
Tobacco smoking is generally accepted to significantly reduce longevity, and is one of the main statistical factors explaining differences in life expectancy between advanced nations. This may be offset by other factors; Japan, a country with a high rate of tobacco consumption, has one of the highest life expectancies in the world (81.15 years, 2005 est[1]). Hong Kong, a dense 7 million people city with constant stress, recently reported a higher life expectancy than Japan (81.39 years, 2005 est[1])
Population longevities can be seen as increasing due to increases in life expectancies around the world[2][1]:
Australia: . . 80 years in 2002, 80.39 years in 2005
Spain:. . . . . 81.02 years un 2002, 82.31 years in 2005
Italy:. . . . . . 79.25 years in 2002, 79.68 years in 2005
France: . . . .79.05 years in 2002, 79.60 years in 2005
Germany: . . 77.78 years in 2002, 78.65 years in 2005
UK: . . . . . . 77.99 years in 2002, 78.4 years in 2005
USA: . . . . . 77.4 years in 2002, 77.7 years in 2005
. . . . .
The mainstream view on the future of longevity, such as the US Census Bureau, is that life expectancy in the USA will be in the mid-80s by the year 2050 (up from 77 today) and will top out eventually in the low 90s, barring major scientific advances that can change the rate of human aging itself, as opposed to merely treating the effects of aging as is done today. The Census Bureau also predicted that the USA would have 5.3 million people aged over 100 in 2100.
Recent increases in the rates of obesity-related diseases, such as diabetes, hypertension, and heart disease, may however drastically slow or reverse this trend toward increasing life expectancy in the developed world.
However, Oeppen and Vaupel (see Science 296(5570):1029, 2002) have observed that since 1840 record life expectancy has risen linearly for men and women, albeit more slowly for men. For women the increase has been almost three months/year. In light of steady increase, without any sign of a cap, the suggestion that life expectancy will top out must be treated with caution. Oeppen and Vaupel observe that experts who assert that “life expectancy is approaching a ceiling … have repeatedly been proven wrong.”[/quote]
Bodo
hey, beautifulspam:
you may not believe in good fats and bad fats (even though its clearly labelled on Australian foods what category they fall into),
but looking at Taiwanese labels, one would think there is no difference between simple and complex carbohydrates, since they’re all just lumped into carbohydrates! F’ing useless! (unless you think a bowl of rice is equivalent to a bowl of sugar?)
Actually, if you’re talking about white rice (just like white bread), there isn’t much difference between it and sugar.
Agree, and I bet most bread in Taiwan is EVEN WORSE (GI wise) than plain white bread from the West.
Although its also interesting to see that Fructose, the sugar contained within fruits ranks better than most breads!
Agree, and I bet most bread in Taiwan is EVEN WORSE (GI wise) than plain white bread from the West.[/quote]
I’ll see that bet and raise you a candy bar.
WHAT???
I was a little shocked by the comment by beautifulspasm about nothing comparing to taiwanese food except cajun and steaks. Are you kidding? how can greasy vegetables and rice soaked in cancer causing toxins possibly compare to a good ole fashion casserole, baked potatoes, pot roast, or even a shitty meat loaf. The best bowl of beef noodles does not even come close to the crappiest beef stew ever.
[quote=“dointimeondarock”]WHAT???
I was a little shocked by the comment by beautifulspasm about nothing comparing to Taiwanese food except cajun and steaks. Are you kidding? how can greasy vegetables and rice soaked in cancer causing toxins possibly compare to a good ole fashion casserole, baked potatoes, pot roast, or even a shitty meat loaf. The best bowl of beef noodles does not even come close to the crappiest beef stew ever.[/quote]
Here here!
Agree. . .[/quote]
I get the point and I agree in essence, but I think there’s a good deal of hyperbole in the above statement: a bowl of sugar is far unhealthier than a bowl of standard, processed, refined white rice.
In any event, if you cook at home it’s easy to buy healthy, organic brown rice and other comparable grains at Welcom. I was a little surprised when my wife took the initiative about a year ago to switch over our household purchasing to such grains, but I gladly went along with the switch. Although I suspected at first that our little girl might balk at the change, she’s perfectly happy with the healthier grains. One can also get such rice at various restaurants in Taiwan.
Can’t eat healthy in Taiwan? What a joke.
This morning I took 10 minutes to make an awesome fruit salad for my wife, daughter and me: sliced banana, apple, chopped walnuts, raisins, and a thing of yogurt. Deelisssssh! Even my daughter, who can be a slow eater, scarfed it down. (I also had a couple slices of Belgian Pie’s great bread that I pulled out of the freezer, and of course some fresh coffee.)
Then for lunch I just had a great green salad that I also made this morning: romaine lettuce, chopped red and yellow peppers, carrots, celery, avocado and sliced almonds. Mmmmm. Brought it to work in a plastic box with a little salad dressing in a separate baggie.
Nothing too fancy, but it sure was good (and everything was easily available in my neighborhood, except for BP’s bread). :lick:
Yeah but you had to make that yourself. What about us lazy bar-stewards?
Seriously. Taiwanese appear to be badly educated with regard to what is healthy and what isn’t. Certainly based on my wife’s family all of whom are well educated generally.
Add to that an ignorance of how many calories go into different kinds of Chinese food and I am pretty much stuffed.
The only way I find to lose weight in Asia generally is to prepare my own food or eat in western style restaurants - so I know what I am taking in.
I’m not critical of Taiwanese food, I think they have some of the best food in the world (and some of the worst) I just don’t know how to eat it healthily. :lick:
I know this topic is over a month old now but I’d like to put my two bob in. I’m studying at NTU and all around and within the university there are all kinds of restaurants, cafes, fruit stalls, dumpling houses and I was particularly thinking of the buffet short of restaurants where you take a plate/container then pick and choose from a wide selection of meat, fish, vegetable, rice, noodle, wonton wraped etc dishes and sometimes even fruit and then it’s weighed so to calculate the cost, so as an added bonus you know how many grams of food you’re consuming isn’t that great! My concern with these places is hygiene. I haven’t heard any horrible stories and I’m not talking from a personal experience it’s just an independent concern of my own. However I guess a lot of the dishes are cooked with oil but if you’re afraid of oil/fat you really shouldn’t be it’s what helps you reach satiety and makes food taste a whole lot better as does salt. My advise is to enjoy your food, eat slowly, try not to eat too much and avoid really processed foods at least on most days. And surely there are a few good vegetarian restaurants in Taiwan considering it’s home to many buddhists and Taoists? I’m sorry I don’t have any knowledge on that front I’ve only been here for two weeks and I’m not a vego.
[quote=“freckles”]And surely there are a few good vegetarian restaurants in Taiwan considering it’s home to many buddhists and Taoists? I’m sorry I don’t have any knowledge on that front I’ve only been here for two weeks and I’m not a vego.[/quote]“A few good ones” is about right. There are many greasy cafeteria-style places.
I would really really like to see more whole grains used here. Proper wholemeal bread, and whole grain rice. I hate putting all that mushy white starch into my body.
Oh if you want fairly decent wholegrain breads and cereals etc you should check out the Carrefour supermarket. I only know that there’s one in Xindian close to the Qizhang MRT stop I haven’t been/heard of any other Carrefours. I love this supermarket because it has absolutely everything! And I’m very into breakfast cereal in the mornings usually I get sick of noodles and dumplings very quickly. And if someone has checked out the bakery section at the Carrefour have you spotted the black French sticks, I’ve also spotted more black french sticks in other small bakeries. They look burnt why are they on display? Are people here into eating charcoal? I do know about its cleansing properties but I’ve also heard about its carcinogetic properties, any clues? …sorry that’s a little off topic but in all seriousness I’ve tried the bread there and some of it is excellent (you can get rye) and you can see for yourself that some of the other breads are perhaps more suited to Chinese/Taiwanese tastes. I don’t know what you’re complaining about really, I’ve spent years on the mainland in areas were there are only mantou, baozi, and some kind of greasy cake thing that is disguised as bread and sometimes came in purple and pink, absolutely no wholemeal in sight. Taiwan or at least Taipei on the other hand has a lot of places where you can get your whole grains. I almost forgot to mention there’s a organic store just around the corner from the Xindianshi MRT stop I’m sorry I can’t remember the name of the lane but if you walk out of exit 1 take an immediate right and then turn right again, it’s on the left hand side of that street. Oh and what about that lovely rich red rice they use hear, I’ve heard that’s really good for you? Also I at least was suprised that they have wholemeal mantou here and I’ve seen it in serveral bakeries now, although personly I think mantou is a bad excuse for bread yuck!
If you’ve got time to make your own sandwiches and everything that’s great. I suppose I’m really talking about quick food you can get on the hoof. That’s what I meant by “used here”. Used as in used in food that people make for you.
I eat those Dorset Cereals at weekends and sometimes as a late evening snack, but I haven’t got time in the morning to munch through a bowl of cereal. I usually just grab a sandwich at my local breakfast shop and eat it on the train.
The black bread is meant to be made from bamboo charcoal, it’s not burnt bread.
What does the rye bread in Carrefour in Xindian look like as I must’ve missed that.
Does anyone know where I can find fine rye flour regularly here? I seem to be able to find rye from time to time in CitySuper, but it’s not a reliable place to get it in.
I guess breakfast here, isn’t exactly what most people would call healthy, but other meals aren’t too bad if you look around a bit, at least not compared to some places 
[quote=“joesax”]The black bread is meant to be made from bamboo charcoal, it’s not burnt bread.[/quote] have you tried it? As for the rye bread it was definitely there last friday I even got to sample some so I know it was authentic or at least what I know rye to taste like a bit chewy and a tad sour… 
sorry I’m very poor at describing tastes and textures. It’s a dark brown oval loaf and I thought it wasn’t bad. Rye flour I’m afraid I don’t know about that…
Rilly? Is that supposed to be good for you, or does it taste good? Sounds weird!
[quote=“joesax”]If you’ve got time to make your own sandwiches and everything that’s great. I suppose I’m really talking about quick food you can get on the hoof. That’s what I meant by “used here”. Used as in used in food that people make for you.[/quote] hmmm I see know. Well I’ll let you know if I see any shops/cafes etc that are selling wholemeal sandwiches. Otherwise perhaps you could get up earlier so you have time to sit and eat your breakfast… I’m not one to bounch out of bed in the morning so I do understand if that’s too difficult.