Women: what do you actually do about pervy male strangers?

I’d like to hear from some of the female posters here and know how they cope with males here who step over the line.

Some posters on the “women-only cars” thread got me thinking. Anyway, some people posted this:

Someone wrote:
Quote:
Exactly. Or simply saying in a loud and direct voice, “Hey, you, stop rubbing up against me.”
I don’t think this would work, not here. Firstly they would probably not dare to speak out and nobody would give a damn anyhow, so it would just become an embarassement and attract “what’s wrong with her?” stares.

Someone else wrote:

I agree that it might not work, especially right away. Nothing new works well in current culture until the culture changes to accept and even expect the new behavior. And that’s what we’re really talking about here is a need for cultural change. And that change is not only needed on the part of the abusive men. The women need to stop being easy, passive targets. (And before anyone asks, no, I don’t think they are “asking for it”).

Anyway, I’ve had talks with my female foreign friends about this. Nobody has been raped, but they have been subject to inappropriate touching, or men who do things that are just plain harrassing while not being downright illegal. I.E.; a guy sitting too close to her and leering at her breasts on the bus while breathing heavy, etc.

One girl I met told me that she (she speaks excellent Chinese) will get up and go talk to a group of people and ask them to protect her from “that strange man”. She said it worked well for her, but of course, your Chinese has to be pretty good to be able to pull this off.

I have heard that yelling at the guy doesn’t do much good, as people look at the big, loud waigoren like she is the one with the problem. I know several girls who do this anyway. It’s better than nothing.

I talked to another girl who told me that she lets out a scream and then backs away from the guy like she is terrified of him. She said it had the effect of making bystanders give him the angry looks instead of her. (She could have passed for a high school girl, which probably worked in her favor) Not sure what kinds of situations this would be appropriate for.

I’m curious to know what other women have done. I think if I were a female I would carry mace all of the time and probably use it in situations where it wasn’t necessary. (still struggling with my anger issues over here :blush: )

These kinds of incidents and thinking about how to cope with them is a side of Taiwan males do not get to see. It is probably very different than the way I believe it is. I’m quite shocked that the men here don’t do anything when they see a women having trouble. But the girl who acts helpless and frightened gets results (they don’t go kick the guys butt unfortunately, but I think she does draw some shame to the guy.)

What’s it like to be female here? I’m sure there are threads in the women’s forum about this, but I would like to know more about it.

Do the women here do less about inappropriate behavior because the overall crime rate is lower and thus they don’t have to fear, say, abduction and murder as much as the women back home?

How often do females here have trouble with inappropriate behavior from strange men, how does the strange behavior differ from back home, and how are the techniques for dealing with it successfully different from back home?

What do the (inappropriately behaved) men here actually do? How is it different from back home, and what does it say about this culture?
How do inappropriately behaved men respond to different methods of responding to them, and why do you think this is?

What kind of country is this? I want to hear about the Taiwan I never see.

I had some strange freaky guy put his hand on my shoulder while he sat next to me and then start to rub his head on my arm (I was trying to take a nap seeing as I had a 40-minute ride on the MRT). I jumped up, shouted, “What the fuck!” and moved to another part of the car. Everyone thought I was the freak even though the guy continued to do it to the girl who was stupid enough to take my seat before she too got up. What fucktards. Perhaps what they should have is a car just for the weirdos and pervs so they can rub all over each other and be happy to their sick little hearts’ content.

While out with a friend at Warner Village some guys working at a food stand giggled and then made a cupping motion with their hands at us. I’m glad my friend is more level-headed than me. I was about to go over there and clear their counter with one sweep with a nice “fuck you” to go with it, but she held me back. Their shop closed down shortly after, but I had secretly hoped to see them again so I could have followed through.

I have a high tolerance for most things except disgusting ogling and objectifying people…especially if that person is me. Then I have a very short temper. You have no idea how far I’ve come with the staring thing. And woe be to those who happen to catch me on a bad day. :fume:

Did the other people on the car witness his behavior before you yelled at him? Why did they think YOU were the freak? If I witnessed this I would stare the guy down at the very least.
Did the girl who took your seat witness what he did? Was she Taiwanese?
He can’t possibly be accustomed to females tolerating this kind of behavior. If he was, you’d see guys acting like this all of the time.
I wonder what the people on the car who witnessed the whole thing really thought. Especially the women.

This stuff sounds awful! I have not had much in terms of really unpleasant experiences with men trying to bother me here, so I think I’m pretty lucky. Guys have tried to flirt or get my info, but in terms of trying to outright mess with me, I’ve been ok.

The only yucky experience I had was when a local garbageman tried to sort of corner me near the night market. Kept asking me what my name was, and some of his friends were not making space for me to pass. I just stared back and kept asking what his name was. He told me many times, but I just kept asking until they made a very clear path for me to leave. If you convince folks that you are equally (if not more) f***ed up than they are, it generally confuses them enough to figure you aren’t worth it.

Still, I’ve found less trouble in Taiwan than anywhere else I have lived. Freaks are everywhere.

I had another guy who caught up to me while I was walking from the bus stop and kept bugging me about getting my phone number and wanting to know where I lived because we were neighbors. I told him I lived down the street and that I needed to pop into a bank. He still insisted on getting my phone number so I told him I didn’t have a phone, hoping that someone wouldn’t decide to call me right then. I haven’t seen him since, but there was a serious ick factor.

The guy on the MRT, not sure how many people witnessed it because I was trying to nap and enjoying the “don’t sit by the waiguoren” mentality. So I knew something was up when I sensed someone sit down and actually in the seat rather than on the edge. Then the person bumped into my side a few times that annoyed me. When the touching and rubbing began, though, that’s when I freaked out on him. The girl had gotten on shortly after I had jumped up. The other people probably thought I was a freak because I was a big black woman who screamed at the pervert.

I have men staring at my boobs everyday. But women do too. I try to ignore it, as often I think its curiousity. If I’m feeling agro that day I’ll catch their eye and say ‘kan sheme’ (what are you looking at) which often makes them look away. Sometimes they even apologise and look a bit shamed.

I’ve had a few nasty experiences though, not dangerous, just left me feeling icky. A man who kept edging up against me on the back seat of the bus - all the other seats were empty. I moved when he started stroking my arm. Another hassled me badly for my phone number. I kept pretending that I was a French woman who spoke no English or Chinese. Another (this was the scariest) offered to accompany me with his dogs when I went back into the forest with torches to help out a hiking party that I was with who got stuck. I told him that the rescue team was right behind me and he backed off.

Staring at boobs - well, duh, you’re in Asia. Big boobs are like blonde hair and blue eyes, a real novelty here. The poor guys have never seen any so enormous. You can’t blame them for staring.

I just glare… well that and don;t take public transit, but that is about disliking crowds rather than being harrased. Maybe I just come off as I can hold my own thus people tend to leave me alone. Was harrassed by some idiot in france on the metro. That was a little frustraiting but finally I just got pissed off and found security and then he left me alone.

that’s kinda all i got, I have never seen nor heard of (previous to now) of most of the situations ppl are talking about especially here in Taiwan. Maybe I’m just lucky? Tho I doubt it, bc I never see much this anywhere, and if by chance I do then I just leave. Well except for the staring but it doesn;t bother me :smiley: hell generally I find it amusing.

Gracious, don’t admit that! Somebody might mistake you for a mammal.

I’ve never understood why women let men get away with some of the stuff they do. When it comes to sex, most guys will try to get away with as much as you allow them to. It’s a simple matter of just saying “No” and most guys will stop (not the weirdos, though). One reason so many foreign guys can get away with some of the inappropriate stuff they do is that Taiwanese girls don’t know how to say “No”, the whole non-conflict/face culture is to blame here. I think some of the Western females have been in Taiwan too long, because I see that Taiwan female influence rubbing off on you…I mean, in North America, the average girl wouldn’t stand for this kind of shit, she’d whistle for the cops or her boyfriend if you so much as looked at her funny. Or do something aggressive, at least…Taiwanese women are much too passive about this sort of thing, compared to North American women.

And if some strange guy tries to grope you, just kick him in the balls. It’s not like he doesn’t deserve it. Be aggressive, stand up for your rights.

Well . . . there was this one night where I was out with my roomate and her Chinese boyfriend having dinner, we may have had a few more folks with us . . . anyway . . . a table of older Taiwanese men were drinking Johnny Walker, and they invited me and my friend to have a drink with them . . . so we knocked back a shot with them . . . and all of a sudden they’re asking my friend’s boyfriend to let them have us for the night . . . all the while assuring him that they’ll get us home safely. Of course, he begged off with some face saving excuse, but . . . whew! that’s bizarre. Like we’re a piece of meat to be passed from one Taiwanese male to another. Other than that, I can’t recall any bad experiences with unwanted physical contact . . . ogling, yes . . . but nothing more.

Bodo

Besides staring nothing ever happened to me in Taiwan. I´m very pale and people used to love my skin “Ni de pifu zenme piaoliang!”. The only danger was becoming idle ;-). I felt less molested than in Germany, actually.

But something happened to a friend of mine which did never happen to her in Europe: She had arrived in Taipei only three days ago, when a guy walked by and “by the way” grabbed her breast and actually squeezed it. She was so shocked that she couldn´t say anything.
What a first impression of Taiwan.

I think such situations come so unexpected that women often don´t know how to react. So the good advice to say “no” will not help then.

The sad thing is that guys who do such things are a minority, but it makes women feel like meat.
I really hated that guy, since my friend is a very shy person who isn´t very happy about her big boobs anyway. Events like that make women lose self-esteem.

[quote=“trebuchet”]
I’m quite shocked that the men here don’t do anything when they see a women having trouble.[/quote]

One thing that I have done a couple times when I see a woman who is in an uncomfortable situation like the ones you mention is just to go up and say: “Hi! Sorry I’m late! Have you been waiting long?” and then ask who her “friend” is. They usually catch on right away and play along. That, or even just ask straight out if she is ok or needs any help. The guy usually takes off pretty quick. Might be because I’m about a foot taller than most men here. :blush:

When I lived in Kaohsiung, I had a man drive by on a scooter and actually grab my butt in the middle of a busy sidewalk. It freaked me out, as I was simply walking home from work, but before I could react, he sped ahead, turned around, and laughed at me. Then he took off and I never got a chance to yell at him. It really shook me up and I felt violated.

I had more unpleasant experiences in KH than I care to mention. What is it with the men down there? Sorry if you’re partial to KH…but I was glad to move back to Taipei!

[quote=“Gym Rat”]When I lived in Kaohsiung, I had a man drive by on a scooter and actually grab my butt in the middle of a busy sidewalk. It freaked me out, as I was simply walking home from work, but before I could react, he sped ahead, turned around, and laughed at me. Then he took off and I never got a chance to yell at him. It really shook me up and I felt violated.
[/quote]

Interesting. The exact same thing happened to me. The only difference is that I am a man, and my butt was grabbed by two girls on a scooter down in Yuan Lin. Exact same scenario, with only gender and geographical differences. Perhaps there’s a movie where this happens?

Whoa! That’s a slick move. How many of them do you get to shag?

HG

Whoa! That’s a slick move. How many of them do you get to shag?

HG[/quote]

Who ever said chivalry was dead? :wink:

[quote=“Bodo”]Well . . . there was this one night where I was out with my roomate and her Chinese boyfriend having dinner, we may have had a few more folks with us . . . anyway . . . a table of older Taiwanese men were drinking Johnny Walker, and they invited me and my friend to have a drink with them . . . so we knocked back a shot with them . . . and all of a sudden they’re asking my friend’s boyfriend to let them have us for the night . . . all the while assuring him that they’ll get us home safely. Of course, he begged off with some face saving excuse, but . . . whew! that’s bizarre. Like we’re a piece of meat to be passed from one Taiwanese male to another. Other than that, I can’t recall any bad experiences with unwanted physical contact . . . ogling, yes . . . but nothing more.

Bodo[/quote]
Ha ha! That exact same thing happened to some one I knew a long time ago. But she leaned over and interrupted the guy to tell him loudly that “you’re wasting your time. You couldn’t afford me.”
“I make far more than your boyfriend,” the guy responded.
“He doesn’t pay. In your case, you don’t even have enough money for me to stay in the same room as you.”

Apparently the guy then started blustering and shouting at the boyfriend, to which my friend then told him she’d kick his sorry arse if he didn’t shut his trap.

That’s a true stroy, embellished only slightly with the patina of the years. :wink:

And a tender bit of romance it is too. Lovely stuff, just lovely.

Darn, where’s that shed a tear emoticon?