Word translation challenge

I think 吃豆腐 does not have a one-to-one relationship in translation. It depends on the situation which can range from “flirtation” to “copping a feel” on a crowded bus.

I don’t get the feeling that it’s necessarily strong, at least not the way I’ve heard it most of the time. Maybe it began that way, and now it’s used jokingly in even less serious instances?

點校本 means the same as 校本 or 校定本, which means a “collated and corrected copy”. By collated, I don’t mean putting pages in their proper order, but rather examining and comparing against another source and noting differences. Therefore, 點校本 means the book has probably been labouriously checked against a trusted source material and corrected where necessary. If there are disagreements with a source material, those agreements are probably noted in the book. You’ll often see 點校本 with historical texts or classical literature where double checking and cross checking with source material is important.

點校本 can be broken down into:

點 as in 標點
校 as in 校對
本 as in 版本

DB, no disagreements here. It’s not necessarily strong and can be used jokingly. But it’s also not necessarily used jokingly, and can be strong.

:notworthy: Thank you VERY much for that! I hope I can return the favor sometime. :slight_smile:

Since we’re on the topic of 吃豆腐, I thought that I’d throw out another similar term: 揩油

The dictionary pronounciation is kai1you2, although native speakers pronounce it ka1you2.

I’ll also throw out a couple more for your personal translating fun:

有緣無份

滑稽 <-- another term where the dictionary pronounciation and the street pronounciation differ

[quote=“sjcma”]Since we’re on the topic of 吃豆腐, I thought that I’d throw out another similar term: 揩油

The dictionary pronounciation is kai1you2, although native speakers pronounce it ka1you2.

有緣無份

<-- another term where the dictionary pronounciation and the street pronounciation differ[/quote]

有緣無份 something “wasn’t meant to be” (where in an informal context)

揩油 the Taiwanese pronunciation is ka2yu5 (tones in Taiwanese), so that may be why you’re hearing “ka” rather than “kai”. – This has a couple of different meanings, that I might translate as (1) to sponge off of ; or (2) trifle with the affections of women – ranging from “flirting”, to “playing the field”, “copping feels”, “getting it whereever one can” depending on the context

ABCC gives hua2ji, funny; amusing; <thea.> comic talk. What do you have?

Here’s a fun one: 娛樂不忘救國! :smiley:

ABCC gives hua2ji, funny; amusing; <thea.> comic talk. What do you have?

Here’s a fun one: 娛樂不忘救國! :smiley:[/quote]

Hi DB, sorry for my ignorance, but I don’t know what ABCC means.

I have a couple of older Mandarin dictionaries at home and they both give the same pronounciation (not hua2ji1). But I’ll just copy and paste from an online dictionary instead since it’s easier (pinyin added by yours truly):

滑稽

ㄍㄨˇ ㄐ| (gu3 ji1)

詼諧有趣的言語、動作。南朝梁˙劉勰˙文心雕龍˙諧讔:是以子長編史,列傳滑稽,以其辭雖傾回,意歸義正也。今或讀為
ㄏㄨㄚˊ ㄐ| (hua2 ji1)

It’s always been hua2ji1 at my household although I do remember my mother telling me as a child that her dad insisted that 滑稽 be pronounced gu3ji1 and that the masses are simply ignorant of this 破音字. Of course, gu3ji1 is pretty archaic nowadays and have been left off the dictionary all together on the mainland.

娛樂不忘救國 – I’d translate that as “think with your head…no, no…the other one!” :smiley:

Sorry - the [color=blue]ABC C[/color]omprehensive C-E Dict, the latest in the Univ. of Hawaii’s ABC series by John DeFrancis. It’s ordered by pinyin, making it the fastest book for looking up compound words. You don’t even have to know what character it is, and all the similarly romanized compounds are grouped together so you can easily compare their meanings to figure out what word you’ve just heard spoken. Unlike the earlier (non-comprehensive) ABC’s, this one gives both simplified and traditional characters for every entry, not just for single character entries. Highly recommended.

Thanks for increasing the size of the Chinese characters, btw. I think that’s much more legible. :slight_smile:

I tried looking this up in my Hanyu Da Zidian; tis indeed a poyinzi, and the first meaning listed under gu3 is 亂 luan4. Perhaps the meaning of comical is related to this? :idunno:

while we are at ‘eating tofu’, how do you translate 甜不辣?

the temptation is, of course, to use the Japanese “tempura” but everyone who has been to Japan, or a sushi bar for that matter, knows that 甜不辣 is quite different from those Japanese deep-fried snacks.

[quote=“hannes”]while we are at ‘eating tofu’, how do you translate 甜不辣?

the temptation is, of course, to use the Japanese “tempura” but everyone who has been to Japan, or a sushi bar for that matter, knows that 甜不辣 is quite different from those Japanese deep-fried snacks.[/quote]

I’d vote for transliteration in this case – [color=blue]tianbula[/color].

It’s the best dictionary available - more entries than any dictionary I know of, and absolutely essential for translators. But it can still be stumped! Not often, but it happens!

It’s the best dictionary available - more entries than any dictionary I know of, and absolutely essential for translators. But it can still be stumped! Not often, but it happens![/quote]

I’m not in the translating business nor am I a Chinese language scholar. But I’m wondering what one would do when translating an article and came across a Chinese word that you did not understand or recognize. How does a pinyin ordered dictionary help in this instance? Or do you have to revert to 部首 in this instance?

If it’s a character I’m not familiar with, I’ll ask a native speaker how it’s pronounced, then look up the pinyin. If no native speaker is around, I’ll use bushou.

[quote=“Dragonbones”][quote=“hannes”]while we are at ‘eating tofu’, how do you translate 甜不辣?

the temptation is, of course, to use the Japanese “tempura” but everyone who has been to Japan, or a sushi bar for that matter, knows that 甜不辣 is quite different from those Japanese deep-fried snacks.[/quote]

I’d vote for transliteration in this case – [color=blue]tianbula[/color].[/quote]

Given that an average English reader will have most likely heard of tempura before they’ve heard of tianbula (IMHO), I’d propose “Taiwanese tempura” or “Taiwanese style tempura” as an alternative.

Sure, you revert to bu4shou3, or a better method if you have one. The pinyin-ordered method works well once you know a lot of characters already. Before that, it’s a bit limited, unless your reading materials add phonetic crutches.

My first option if I don’t remember how to pronounce a graph is to check the margins of my pocket dictionary for the component cross-indexing I’ve developed. Anytime I encounter a character I don’t know, I go to one of or sometimes each of its component elements in my pinyin-ordered pocket dictionary, add this character in the margin next to it, and note its pronunciation; I’ll also check the dictionary and add any other graphs with that pronunciation which have the same element (indicating a phonetic role). So next to 未 wei4 I have “[color=blue] mei4 妹昧魅寐沬眛抺祙跊韎”[/color], all pronounced mei4. Over the years, the entries have accumulated to a useful level. It’s faster than bushou, on average, because the indexing graphs are ordered by pinyin, but also because some bushou simply have too many compounds listed under them, slowing the search process, whereas 未 here has only 10 compounds listed, and at a glance I can tell they all have the same pronunciation (they’re color coded by pronunciation too, so I don’t have to repeat the “mei4” entry). Harbaugh’s printed book works in a similar fashion, indexing graphic components regardless of whether they are the traditional bushou element. But I like my method because in the process, I become aware of the breadth of phonetic roles that elements play, so that I’m more likely to be able to guess pronunciation possibilities.

ABCC is very comprehensive, as the name implies and as Chris mentioned – but actually I stump it all the time. That’s not really a criticism of it – it’s just a function of the specialized and archaic areas I read. I routinely note down whatever I didn’t find in it, and periodically write the author with a list of the items I feel should be added, sometimes with documentation as needed. If a number of people do this, the dictionary will continue to improve over time.

As for tianbula, yeah, I thought of Taiwanese tempura too, and then didn’t add that to my post. So maybe it’s not such a bad idea! :slight_smile:

Four more:

重視
捨不得
發揮
幹部

[quote=“Chris”]Four more:

重視
捨不得
發揮
幹部[/quote]

Okay, I’ll have a go.

重視= “to attach importance to” or “to place value on”

捨不得=“to be hesistant to give up” or in another context, “to have a difficult time (don’t something)”

發揮=normally means “develop,” as in a skill. On the MRT, it is used to mean “exercise (a little kindness)”

幹部=why, “cadre” of course :slight_smile: . Actually, in Taiwan it is usually used to mean “an officer or manager of the company/business unit leader.”

I don’t usually translate 緣分, I explain it with examples.

For 撒嬌, I typically use “make a play for/beg for attention.” I have never seen it used to describe male behaviour.

Here’s one for you:

孝順

…can you think of a viable alternative to “filial piety”?

[quote=“Tomas”]Okay, I’ll have a go.
重視= “to attach importance to” or “to place value on”[/quote]
Yup. But with the sheer frequency that the Chinese use this phrase, we translators usually have to find more succinct ways of expressing it. It’s awkward to use “attach importance to” five times in a paragraph! Sometimes I’ll use the verb “to value”; “emphasize” and “stress” can be used in certain contexts.

Yup. But in some contexts, such as saying goodbye to a friend, we simply don’t have a functional equivalent. “I can’t bear leaving you” is too over-the-top, for example. “I’ll miss you” is something English speakers would say in the same situation, and that’s what I’d use as a “translation” in that context.

Dictionaries translate it as “bring XXX into play” or “give play to”, but again, it’s a phrase that’s frequently used in Chinese, whereas these “play” phrases are not common in English. You’re right on the money with “exercise” (Qing fahui ninde aixin!): I use it too, or “utilize”, “employ” or “apply”.

Yup. It’s also used for ranking members in school clubs. Clubs in Taiwan are far more hierarchical than those in the West. An exception is the Key Club, and the “cadres” :slight_smile: are called “officers”, which I use. Or, I’ll just name the position, like “treasurer” or “program designer”.

[quote]Here’s one for you:

孝順

…can you think of a viable alternative to “filial piety”?[/quote]

Difficult! I’ve used “filiality” before, but the word I needed had to be a single word starting with F. (I was tempted to use another F-word!)

Filial duty?
Sonly duty?

In some context, “respect for parents” may suffice.