Like i said many times that among the many bad dog breeders in Taiwan there are some very good ones in fact some of the best dog breeders in the world. This was met with much scorn but facts are facts. Especially for German Shepherds, Beagles, Pit Bull Terriers and others. You can get some very good dogs in this country.
This is a an example. A Taiwanese German Shepherd winning part of the working world championships in Germany. I specifically pointed out that there are some very healthy high quality German Shepherd dogs in Taiwan. You can’t get much better than this for a German Shepherd.
http://tw.nextmedia.com/animation/iplayer/msecid/1/type/Today/ArtID/33685319/TVID/25845/issueid/20110922/subSection/0/pos/0
It is nice to adopt but do not believe it when animal rights activists say there are not any good dog breeders in Taiwan. There are some and they are world class as the video above demonstrates.
I think it is less the animal rights people who say there are no good breeders than regular posters who have searched taiwan high and low. Over the years I have heard nothing but horror stories from people who have bought dogs or attempted to buy dogs.
Besides, breeding good dogs and being a good breeder are not the same thing. I think you have not thought through your point. Breeders can be horribly cruel in the overall process. There’s a back story you are neglecting to consider.
[quote=“Mucha Man”]I think it is less the animal rights people who say there are no good breeders than regular posters who have searched taiwan high and low. Over the years I have heard nothing but horror stories from people who have bought dogs or attempted to buy dogs.
Besides, breeding good dogs and being a good breeder are not the same thing. I think you have not thought through your point. Breeders can be horribly cruel in the overall process. There’s a back story you are neglecting to consider.[/quote]
Breeding abuse happens all over the workd especially in the Greyhound industry (that they do not have in Taiwan). It is almost impossible to know if the dogs are being abused (if the breeder wishes to hide it); however, what you can do is look at the end result. If the end result is a good healthy athletic dog then that is a good breeder. Unless you actually see abuse then one cannot presume that the breeder abuses his dogs. However, what you can know to an extent is how healthy are his line of dogs and what breeding principles he says he uses. The man in the video above produces good healthy dogs that win working shows all over the world (this time in the home of the German Shepherd Germany itself). There is no evidence that he absues his dogs but there is evidence that he has excellent dogs so yes he is a good breeder and breeds good dogs.
Where did your friends look?
I have to say that i have not seen the first good pitbull terrier in Taiwan… i have an American Pitbull back home and i was member of the pitbull terrier association back then helping to improve the image pitbulls have… my dog won several awards and i know some very good terriers… but then again… i dont know any here in Taiwan… maybe there are and i never see them…
Everyone wants a dog from that breeder now … seeing dollar signs appearing out of nowhere …
How many of them will then up on the streets because people will be to stupid to know how much effort is required in looking after an alsation.
I feel for the dogs
A good breeder is the one that takes responsibility of his charges for their whole life, not just at the sale point. He is a person who is in love with the breed and as such, holds the highest estimates of quality control. It is not just the person with most prizes -which can be bought- or fancy paperwork -which has ben proven to be fake time and time again. True, international recognition is a good thing but as anyone knows, when you walk into a pet store or contact a breeder on teh net, what guarantee do you have about the pedigree of the pups? What standards have been enforced? Little to none. That al pups are sold without being castrated/chipped or even vaccinated is a disgrace. A handful of people do love animals and breed them responsibly, and we shoudl ertainly publish their names and sing their praises for being above teh average. But a prize with dogs bred abroad and only raised here needs to stand teh test of time.
This inquiry reminds me of a piece of news this morning. This woman was complaining about this place in Guanghua that advertised itself as Asus Officila Repair Shop. Well, after her notebook was in their clutches for two months, she complained to Asus directly and found out that the company is not registered as such. Yet the place has all the trimmings and official logos. How is a consumer to know it is not the real thing? Though very careful research. And the pet industry is based on impulse buying, not long term commitment. And that is why we are so jaded and wary of any breeder. Too much irresponsibility and greed involved in a cruel trade.
a real German Shepard. sorry, but show dogs are a cruelty. It is shameful to see the Shepard with a dropped rear knowing the hip problems will sideline the dog and lead to early term.
anyone that contributes to this is just cruel.
Yes you just have not seen them.
They are used for fighting or pig hunting here not show. Nobody shows pit bulls here they fight them for large money. One fight that happened twenty years ago had prize money of 2,000,000 US$ (not Taiwan dollars US dollars so yes they have good pit bulls).
All the famous lines are present Mayday, Eli …
My close Taiwanese friend imported the very first pit bull into Taiwan from a man called Danny Burton many many years ago. So yeah they have strong athletic game dogs in Taiwan and they are world famous for that by people involved with that sort of thing.
[quote=“Icon”]A good breeder is the one that takes responsibility of his charges for their whole life, not just at the sale point. He is a person who is in love with the breed and as such, holds the highest estimates of quality control. It is not just the person with most prizes -which can be bought- or fancy paperwork -which has ben proven to be fake time and time again. True, international recognition is a good thing but as anyone knows, when you walk into a pet store or contact a breeder on teh net, what guarantee do you have about the pedigree of the pups? What standards have been enforced? Little to none. That al pups are sold without being castrated/chipped or even vaccinated is a disgrace. A handful of people do love animals and breed them responsibly, and we shoudl ertainly publish their names and sing their praises for being above teh average. But a prize with dogs bred abroad and only raised here needs to stand teh test of time.
This inquiry reminds me of a piece of news this morning. This woman was complaining about this place in Guanghua that advertised itself as Asus Officila Repair Shop. Well, after her notebook was in their clutches for two months, she complained to Asus directly and found out that the company is not registered as such. Yet the place has all the trimmings and official logos. How is a consumer to know it is not the real thing? Though very careful research. And the pet industry is based on impulse buying, not long term commitment. And that is why we are so jaded and wary of any breeder. Too much irresponsibility and greed involved in a cruel trade.[/quote]
In my opinion the most important things is that he/she breeds healthy pups. Why would any breeder sell castrated high quality expensive dogs? Who would spend lots of money buying an expensive castrated dog (exceptions aside)? That is up to the new owner to decide especially if it is a working dog. It is also not the breeders job to have responsibility for a dog he has sold to someone else. After the point of sale it is not his dog anymore he has sold it.
I guess we can agree to disagree 
got to agree with freelander on the castrating of a dog. working dogs from healers to shepherds, once cut are worthless. and a bitch that has not seen a season or a litter is a completely different dog.
a lap dog or a roamer should be cut. the family dog should be cut. but never the working dog or the show dog.
[quote=“justreal”]http://blackthornkennel.com/
a real German Shepard. sorry, but show dogs are a cruelty. It is shameful to see the Shepard with a dropped rear knowing the hip problems will sideline the dog and lead to early term.
anyone that contributes to this is just cruel.[/quote]
Nice looking healthy dogs in that link; I agree. An interesting site.
[quote=“fenlander”][quote=“Icon”]A good breeder is the one that takes responsibility of his charges for their whole life, not just at the sale point. He is a person who is in love with the breed and as such, holds the highest estimates of quality control. It is not just the person with most prizes -which can be bought- or fancy paperwork -which has ben proven to be fake time and time again. True, international recognition is a good thing but as anyone knows, when you walk into a pet store or contact a breeder on teh net, what guarantee do you have about the pedigree of the pups? What standards have been enforced? Little to none. That al pups are sold without being castrated/chipped or even vaccinated is a disgrace. A handful of people do love animals and breed them responsibly, and we shoudl ertainly publish their names and sing their praises for being above teh average. But a prize with dogs bred abroad and only raised here needs to stand teh test of time.
This inquiry reminds me of a piece of news this morning. This woman was complaining about this place in Guanghua that advertised itself as Asus Officila Repair Shop. Well, after her notebook was in their clutches for two months, she complained to Asus directly and found out that the company is not registered as such. Yet the place has all the trimmings and official logos. How is a consumer to know it is not the real thing? Though very careful research. And the pet industry is based on impulse buying, not long term commitment. And that is why we are so jaded and wary of any breeder. Too much irresponsibility and greed involved in a cruel trade.[/quote]
In my opinion the most important things is that he/she breeds healthy pups. Why would any breeder sell castrated high quality expensive dogs? Who would spend lots of money buying an expensive castrated dog (exceptions aside)? That is up to the new owner to decide especially if it is a working dog. It is also not the breeders job to have responsibility for a dog he has sold to someone else. After the point of sale it is not his dog anymore he has sold it.
I guess we can agree to disagree [/quote]
Well, you can disagree with the international associations, both of breeders and animal consultants, as such is the standard abroad.
“Well, you can disagree with the international associations, both of breeders and animal consultants, as such is the standard abroad.”
what standards? and abroad where? international associations? that’s a joke. animal consultants? anyway you look at it the breeders and consultants following the international association guidelines or kennel club guides tend to promote inbreeding of the dogs. and unhealthy attributes. in particular the German Shepard, first thing I look for in a Shepard is rear leg displacement and bows. this is promoting a bad attribute for looks and show. this is cruel to the dog.
other breeds have also similar inbreeding problems but I am more familiar with the Shepard.
You guys are talking past each other. Unless your connected, nobody on this board is going to see working dogs. The guys who breed and keep these dogs are a special group and none of you are invited to join.
Now those little yappy dogs are easy as pie to get because they hold no working value and are disposable. I would include huskies in this as they are big face dogs. You could probably go down to the city pound grab a few and start your own puppy farm.
[quote=“Okami”]You guys are talking past each other. Unless your connected, nobody on this board is going to see working dogs. The guys who breed and keep these dogs are a special group and none of you are invited to join.
Now those little yappy dogs are easy as pie to get because they hold no working value and are disposable. I would include huskies in this as they are big face dogs. You could probably go down to the city pound grab a few and start your own puppy farm.[/quote]
what are you considering “working value”?
would hope you know the difference between a working dog, and a fighter.
I personally don’t really agree with breeding dogs for sale and i don’t agree with the statement that dogs that have been cut can’t work, i have a “cut” mixed dog who is an excellent guard dog and extremely smart and can be trained.
However, i do agree that there are good breeders out there, in Taiwan i’m not so sure, but if there are then they should be working with the animal organizations and the government to put a stop to the illegal back garden shitty breeders because they are damaging their business, why go to a good breeder and pay $80,000 up for a puppy when you can go to a back garden shitty breeder and buy one for $20,000?? THis is where the problem lies, too many people think it is easy to breed dogs and sell them. if the “good breeders” worked together with the government and animal orgs to make it impossible to start breeding without licences, checks, and the so forth there would be less dogs dumped and less badly bred dogs.
This was posted on the animals taiwan facebook page,
This poodle on his side looked like a dying baby bird with tufts of hair and bones sticking out. He is 6 months old and weights 800 GRAMS. Apparently the owner was told by her/his breeder that if she starved the dog, she would have one of those teacup size poodles. She already has one that went through this ‘nutritional diet’ and turned out to be quite mini, so please she was with the ‘results’ she instituted this strict ‘diet’ on her new puppy""
This is just one of the many horror stories i have heard and have seen. It’s hard to "look on the good side"when you’ve seen the neglect, abuse and abandonment that i have.
A guy living near me has 3 german shepherd show dogs he keeps them in cages and walks them once a day, no socilization, no working, no nothing. One of them wouldn’t listen to him and bit a few dogs so he gave it to a "friend"i asked who this friend was, did he get it neutered before giving it away and his reply way “oh just some guy i met and no i didn’t get it neutered” shame, what really did happen to this dog which was locked in a cage for most of its young adult life and then got given away because it was too hyper and bit other dogs, probably chained up somewhere now or dead.
This guy is very proud of his show dogs which have one many prizes and he gets money for them. He keeps them to earn money and make himself look good.
point i’m making… back to the beginning… i don’t agree with breeding animals for money.
[quote=“UKbikerchic”]I personally don’t really agree with breeding dogs for sale and i don’t agree with the statement that dogs that have been cut can’t work, i have a “cut” mixed dog who is an excellent guard dog and extremely smart and can be trained.
a working dog is left un cut to bring out the aggressiveness in the male dog. this also leaves the option to expand the blood line if the dog proves well. for a family dog or your companion dog cutting is a good thing as it will lower the activity level. this is proven.
However, i do agree that there are good breeders out there, in Taiwan i’m not so sure, but if there are then they should be working with the animal organizations and the government to put a stop to the illegal back garden shitty breeders because they are damaging their business, why go to a good breeder and pay $80,000 up for a puppy when you can go to a back garden shitty breeder and buy one for $20,000?? THis is where the problem lies, too many people think it is easy to breed dogs and sell them. if the “good breeders” worked together with the government and animal orgs to make it impossible to start breeding without licences, checks, and the so forth there would be less dogs dumped and less badly bred dogs.
true.
This was posted on the animals taiwan facebook page,
This poodle on his side looked like a dying baby bird with tufts of hair and bones sticking out. He is 6 months old and weights 800 GRAMS. Apparently the owner was told by her/his breeder that if she starved the dog, she would have one of those teacup size poodles. She already has one that went through this ‘nutritional diet’ and turned out to be quite mini, so please she was with the ‘results’ she instituted this strict ‘diet’ on her new puppy""
that is just sad.
This is just one of the many horror stories i have heard and have seen. It’s hard to "look on the good side"when you’ve seen the neglect, abuse and abandonment that i have.
A guy living near me has 3 german shepherd show dogs he keeps them in cages and walks them once a day, no socilization, no working, no nothing. One of them wouldn’t listen to him and bit a few dogs so he gave it to a "friend"i asked who this friend was, did he get it neutered before giving it away and his reply way “oh just some guy i met and no i didn’t get it neutered” shame, what really did happen to this dog which was locked in a cage for most of its young adult life and then got given away because it was too hyper and bit other dogs, probably chained up somewhere now or dead.
This guy is very proud of his show dogs which have one many prizes and he gets money for them. He keeps them to earn money and make himself look good.
point i’m making… back to the beginning… i don’t agree with breeding animals for money.[/quote]
I agree with you on your points save the cutting of a working dog. and only a working dog. most people can not distinguish between the types or the reasons for not gelding. it take years of working with the animals to understand. I mean working with as in a police dog type of situation. or likes of cattle dog we grew up training type of working dogs.
I would not consider guard dogs as a working dog, My Chihuahua was a hell of a good guard dog. I liked to call him the door bell dog. and most that have the guard dog types would tend to go with a fighter.
[quote=“justreal”]http://blackthornkennel.com/
a real German Shepard. sorry, but show dogs are a cruelty. It is shameful to see the Shepard with a dropped rear knowing the hip problems will sideline the dog and lead to early term.
anyone that contributes to this is just cruel.[/quote]
Let’s recap:
Not all dog breeders are bad. There are surely responsible ones, who care about their reputation and teh well being of their charges. Nevertheless, the situation on this island is a bit particular. Truly the cases mentioned -speacillly bred dogs for competitions- should conform to certain standards -size, health, condition- breed standards, and certainly those are a bit out of Jose average’s league.
I am thinking about some news I saw. A guy invested a fortune in a Savannah-like exotic cat -big ones, dog size, but his wife does not agree with it, so he’s giving it to friends. That was a bundle of money. Or the latest craze, fan-eared mini monleys, that go for 300K each, as status symbol. Those are also imported.
So I wonder about the breder, who sold those things, without caring where they went. It is not just Taiwan’s problem, but world problem. As to the “quality”, or bettersaid, condition of the animals, who knows?
When I buy an electric appliance, say, a TV set, I have a choice of brands and prices. There is a standard, menaing I hereby suppose that when I go to a reputable place to buy a TV, say Carrefour or 3C, the appliance will have the corresponding seals that it has passed que quality control tests. Now, do we have that here for pets? If I was a breeder, I would enforce that, because then my product would be more valuable and coveted, just as a Patito Brand can’t compete with, say, Hitachi. I woudl also benefir from giving my dogs vaccinated, chiped and spayed. I would not have competition dilluting my work and lowering teh quality of teh product, plus if I care about the dog, if there is any problem, I’d have a “give it back to me” guarantee. Here I am quoting stuff from Dogs for Dummies and a couple of animal behaviorist books, like The other end of the leash.
This business, with more controls, would actually be more profitable. As it is without any effort, they get a bundle, and no guarantee is given, so there is no incentive to improve. neither the market nor the government asks for more. So kudos to this guy if he’s engaging in competitions to start a really professional enterprise. But until I see more of him, his after sales service so to speak, then I’ll give him congratulations.