[quote=“Tetsuo”][quote=“Cola”]Everyone should learn to cultivate their bullshit detectors more, as one of the posters above, maybe it was Brian, so correctly said. He smelled something fishy way back when, and held off getting invovled. This Ryan character must have been one charming smooth-talking rake.
Was everyone drunk when they met with him?[/quote]
Hindsight’s always 20/20.[/quote]
Absolutely. I’m sure many of us have been fooled by scam artists, and many of them are very smooth. Of course they seem like nice or talented people; that’s the first part of their game.
I know I’ve been taken. The worst time was when I was contacted by a phoney stock broker with a convincing spiel, impressive website and documents, at a time when I was very busy, with not much time to think, but with money to spend. I was fortunate and recovered my loss through a quick, aggressive lawsuit, but I learned my lessons, in particular:
If someone has a business or investment scheme that sounds too good to be true, trust your scepticism, don’t just give in to the smooth talk, but instead ask questions and insist on receiving answers to them.
If you’re not sure you can trust the person, check out their background, check appropriate business records, see if they have appropriate permits/licenses, google their name and the name of their business, etc.
If you can’t find anything by searching the person’s background, ask for references, contact them and make inquiries.
Drop by their business premises, preferably without advance notice.
If they want your time or money, make sure you have some kind of protection (signed written agreement, security interest, payment from them up front) etc.
Of course your particular strategies will vary from case to case, but don’t jump into a business/investment without some investigation and don’t feel guilty about wanting answers, assurances and security; an honest business partner should understand your concerns.
[quote=“Cola”]Interesting story in the Taipei Times today, link below, but funny, they say they cannot print the suspect’s photo for privacy reasons, yet the Liberty Times, the Taipei Times owner paper, in Chinese, printed the man’s photo yesterday in full living color, large photo, with his eyes in AV porn moasaic so you cannot identify him.
But the full body shot shows exactly who he is, just the eyes were mosaiced out. I wonder why the Times’s English paper could not print the photo. They identified him by name, too, but just called him “R” in the story.[/quote]On second thoughts, Considering that we’re not allowed to name him, I have no idea if he’s been mentioned before, and maybe it’s a good idea if the noberators pay attention that noone mistakenly mentions his name in future relating to this case should anyone here know it.
Like Mother Theresa, I just clicked on this thread, I had no idea about WWRN or that any of this was even going on. Looking back on it, it looks like it could have been a really great thing. I feel awful for the people that got ripped off, especially TavernCaptain (who I applaud for his amazing restraint), and especially for this family. I really don’t know what else to say … it seems even too unreal for television.
That eye mosaic thing makes me laugh. I was looking at a photo in a local paper once and I noticed several tiny squares in the region of a woman’s eyes that presumably were there to obscure her identity.
[quote=“Mother Theresa”][quote=“Tetsuo”][quote=“Cola”]Everyone should learn to cultivate their bullshit detectors more, as one of the posters above, maybe it was Brian, so correctly said. He smelled something fishy way back when, and held off getting invovled. This Ryan character must have been one charming smooth-talking rake.
Was everyone drunk when they met with him?[/quote]
Hindsight’s always 20/20.[/quote]
Absolutely. I’m sure many of us have been fooled by scam artists, and many of them are very smooth. Of course they seem like nice or talented people; that’s the first part of their game.
I know I’ve been taken. The worst time was when I was contacted by a phoney stock broker with a convincing spiel, impressive website and documents, at a time when I was very busy, with not much time to think, but with money to spend. I was fortunate and recovered my loss through a quick, aggressive lawsuit, but I learned my lessons, in particular:
If someone has a business or investment scheme that sounds too good to be true, trust your scepticism, don’t just give in to the smooth talk, but instead ask questions and insist on receiving answers to them.
If you’re not sure you can trust the person, check out their background, check appropriate business records, see if they have appropriate permits/licenses, google their name and the name of their business, etc.
If you can’t find anything by searching the person’s background, ask for references, contact them and make inquiries.
Drop by their business premises, preferably without advance notice.
If they want your time or money, make sure you have some kind of protection (signed written agreement, security interest, payment from them up front) etc.
Of course your particular strategies will vary from case to case, but don’t jump into a business/investment without some investigation and don’t feel guilty about wanting answers, assurances and security; an honest business partner should understand your concerns.[/quote] That’s all very well and good as business advice but how about people were close personal friends with him.
This article here is about a con-man who tricked his best friend out of money to value of his best friend’s house. I’m sure a few people here considered Ryan of WWRN a personal friend long before they were actually taken for a ride.
I have real sympathy for his family and those taken for a ride but I don’t think Ryan’s totally beyond redemption but it is going to be a time consuming process for wounds to heal and for people to be able to forgive him.
I only met Ryan a few weeks ago and have no idea about what the real truth of the matter is. I saw the Chinese media reporting on the “kidnapping” over the last few days and felt sorry for all involved. Then today I read the article in Taipei Times and it was clear to me that except for the information regarding the kidnapping, everything else was just taken from this thread! I wondered what kind of a journalist would be that lazy and since the by-line said “Staff Writer” I called TT to ask. Someone there told me that “Staff Writer” means that they had just translated the article from Chinese media with no fact checking of their own. This upsets me. I don’t know the truth and I don’t know most of you people who write here under pseudonyms and that is my point; media should find out facts for us! I want to read articles that clarify the situation with identified, credible sources.
When the local English language media do not to spend resources on finding the facts regarding a story that so involves the foreign community, doesn’t that mean that they are worse than useless?
[quote=“Elias”]I only met Ryan a few weeks ago and have no idea about what the real truth of the matter is. I saw the Chinese media reporting on the “kidnapping” over the last few days and felt sorry for all involved. Then today I read the article in Taipei Times and it was clear to me that except for the information regarding the kidnapping, everything else was just taken from this thread! I wondered what kind of a journalist would be that lazy and since the by-line said “Staff Writer” I called TT to ask. Someone there told me that “Staff Writer” means that they had just translated the article from Chinese media with no fact checking of their own. This upsets me. I don’t know the truth and I don’t know most of you people who write here under pseudonyms and that is my point; media should find out facts for us! I want to read articles that clarify the situation with identified, credible sources.
When the local English language media do not to spend resources on finding the facts regarding a story that so involves the foreign community, doesn’t that mean that they are worse than useless?
I want facts.
Thanks,
Elias Ek
elias@enspyre.com[/quote]
When I read the article and they mentioned an “identifiable poster”, I took that to mean that they checked up on it a little. We’ll have to ask the TavernCaptain if anyone called him about it.
When I read the Taipei Times today and noticed that Forumosa.com was mentioned twice - I nearly shit myself. I have never seen a website mentioned as a ‘credible’ source of information while a criminal investigation was underway. I personally have never seen this happen before. I agree with the above post completely. I want facts instead of lazy reporting. As some of you know, I hate the media here with a passion. This goes to show you how fawkin inept the local media is and how blood thirsty they are for GOSSIP. OK OK, the media is what it is worldwide but they should be investigating CREDIBLE resources and not anonymous tips to fill a rag. :fume:
I’ve just taken a call from a friend who had been reading the TT article, and is concerned that gossip on this website is being reported by hacks who can’t be bothered to check their facts. edit: Elias posted while I was writing.
He’s being crucified in the media and, as someone pointed out, the foreign community in general will be judged too. Please do not make judgements about people if you don’t have first-hand knowledge.
If the allegation that Almas John is a cross-dressing pederast from Wales is true then blah blah blah. But if they’re not proven to be true (they’re not) then I have no business condemning him on this site.
I’m not “wrong”. I’m posting my opinion based on my first-hand experiences. How many times did you meet this guy? Do you know if these allegations are true? I thought that the truth of allegations is supposed to be decided in a properly constituted court. But no, a public discussion forum is judge and jury while the accused languishes in jail unable to speak for himself.
Is his wife in jail too?
No? Well, she did nothing wrong did she? So why did she run away from the police and give the game away? Or is that just more baseless reporting, rumour with which to hang someone?
A few FACTS for you lot to consider:
One of the things that encouraged me to take WWRN seriously was an announcement I thought I saw here by Tavern Captain in which he claimed to have checked and confirmed that WWRN was legitimate. This, and subsequent conversations with him at The Tavern, led me to decide that, whatever I might think about Ryan, the project was probably going to be around for a while.
That announcement seems to have been a figment of my imagination. It’s disappeared. Note to self: don’t rely on what you think you read at forumosa.
I have personally spoken with the President of a major international/local company who was introduced to me by Ryan. He and Ryan had discussed a major advertising package - the mythical ‘big one’ that struggling businessmen pin their hopes on. I can see how someone under stress would put off bill payments in anticipation of a deal that never materialises.
The foreigner is reported to be in jail charged with faking a kidnapping.
The wife, who was with him when the report was filed, is not reported to be in jail.
No-one who claims to be owed money by Ryan has publicly stated that they are taking legal action to recover it. As most of those people were working for him without a work permit that’s hardly surprising is it? Sure he should have supplied an ARC, but if you know that it’s required and it’s not there then you’re guilty of breaking the law too. Illegal workers in an illegal business, but only one party is guilty. Right!
Now a few opinions:
I can envision someone of Ryan’s character (as I observed it over just a few weeks) faking a kidnapping. It’s plausible, but it’s not proven, and I wouldn’t like to condemn someone for what I imagine they’re capable of.
Until he tries (actually asks) to get money he hasn’t scammed anyone. He’s guilty of wasting police time, if anything, not extortion. I’m not condoning anything, just asking the lynchmob to calm down and think about this.
If the news reports are true - and that’s a big if - then his wife was involved.
I don’t know the lady at all, but if I were married to someone who had fucked-up big time and had a child’s welfare to think of… well, how would you solve this terrible disaster? Rule#1 is to survive and in the absence of better options I wouldn’t be too hard on her if she went along with this reluctantly.
So we’ve got someone trying to dig himself out of a hole by digging a bigger one, apparently abetted by a desperate wife who panics and gives the game away. He gets jail, she turns her phone off, and the media come to this website looking for juicy morsels of gossip with which to demonise foreigners generally. And you help them, while in other threads the TW judicial system and media are constantly derided for their inadequacies.
And how did this come about? Step back in time to the WWRN debacle. So he fucked up and people didn’t get paid. So what? Happens all the time. Do you see the guy driving off into the sunset in a Mercedes? He hasn’t scammed until he takes people’s money for his own use. Borrowing money you can’t repay to buy equipment for your business, or hiring people you can’t afford to pay, is not quite the same as defrauding someone out of their savings. It’s not good, but it’s not evidence of intent to rob people.
I’m not trying to excuse the guy. He has to be responsible for the situation he has created, and if that means being Almas John’s bitch for a year in payment then that’s his problem. Now I see a few (rightfully) angry people, and a lynchmob forming behind them. All I saw a few weeks ago (and I looked hard enough not to let myself get burned more than I was prepared to risk) was a wannabe with stars in his eyes who saw the possibility of creating something big, and was so enamoured of what he saw that he shut his eyes to the realities of the situation.
I too saw a possibility of something big happening, as did some of the other people investing their time or money. We lost varying amounts, and none have announced that it was more than they could afford. Ryan has potentially lost everything, because he saw the same big opportunity that everyone else did and was prepared to bend some rules to take advantage of it. I’ve seen it plenty of times before, here and in other countries.
The quality of the reporting on this is evidence that there is a need for some decent media in Taiwan that serves the foreign community. Somebody tried to make that happen, without the resources he needed, and now he’s in jail. Liar, idiot, good-for-nothing, maybe. But there’s no need for people who weren’t involved to go off at the deep end with condemnations.
In response to Loretta’s post, I’d like to point out that I’ve never met the guy who was discussed in this thread and the media, I don’t know anything about the alleged case except what I’ve read here and in the Taipei Times, which as far as I know may have been incorrect, and whatever I may have said in the past or will say in the future is probably incorrect as well. Now that I’ve gotten that out of the way, on the subject of hypothetical staged kidnappings, namahottie wrote in another thread:
I can imagine three possibilities in such a hypothetical scenario:
to convince the husband’s or wife’s family to pay money to the father of the fake kidnap victim
to convince friends to help out by paying money to the father of the fake kidnap victim
to get an extension of time to repay debts due to the dire circumstances
If you wanted to con someone out of some money, is starting a radio station, spending all the money on equipment, and running said radio station for several weeks, the best way to do it ? Surely that’s not a very efficient way.
As far as I know, very little of the money was spent on equipment. Most of the radio equipment - i have been told - was obtained on credit under false pretenses.
Once again, I don’t know the full extent of the story and I can not know what Ryan was planning. But if an entrepreneur doesn’t have enought money to reach all the way, he would not pay cash for equipment, he would buy it on credit so that he could retain cash for other things that HAD to be paid cash, of course counting on that future revenues would help with the monthly payments…
That’s risky, but not evil.
Is that what he was planning? I don’t know, do you?
Loretta posts some interesting facts about risk takers, poor risk takers actually. They do see the pie in the sky. They ARE dreamers. They lack practicality.
BUT, a good risk taker will not bet his whole stash on one risk, and a company will never risk it all on one big client. That one hugely important deal could make or break your new company is a sign of ineptitude. The boring mundane things that go into running a successful business are what actually make it run, not the exciting big flashy risks.
Good risks are controlled, and limited, so that should they fail, all is NOT lost. This scheme sounds as though the whole thing, every facet was a risk (of course, not being in the know, I don’t know) and that is a way big nono!
Not true Elias! for example, the local English papers? is that the right word? are QUITE useful for sopping up extra moisture from the bathroom slippers. outstanding for that. unfortunately that’s more than i could say for some of the other particulars in this case if the facts as presented are true.
