These days, I’m not even sure what to think. On the one hand, working in the government system, I know that it’s a complete bloody nonsense. On the other hand, both having worked in the private sector and having known other people who also have or still do (here and in real life), I know that’s largely a complete bloody nonsense also. Advocating for a free market assumes that consumers are rational. What if they’re not though? If, even at a more subtle level, these kindergartens regularly engage in various forms of child abuse, where is the duty of care? Obviously, it doesn’t actually come from the government anyway since they simply turn a blind eye to their own regulations. Almost the entire way of education in this country, be it public or private sector, is a complete mess.
You know I have never even thought of that 
?[/quote]
Nobody tells you what language to learn at home and I cannot believe you stupidly suggest what you did. Just as in the US where kids speak say Spanish at home and learn English as a second language, many kids here speak Taiwanese / Hakka / Aboriginal languages at home at home but need to learn Mandarin at school and at Kindy. Perhaps because they are learning Mandarin as a second language the government policy makers decided thats enough for the poor kiddies. Maybe they have the proper educationcal qualifictions to make those policies, and whether or not you agree with them, it is what they have decided upon. I don’t think the kiddies learning English with a few 30 minute classes a week would hurt them too much either.
It’s great to here these Taiwanese speaking kindy kids saying wan tuu swee, ah bwee she.[/quote]
You don’t think I was actually suggesting families not speak the language of their choice, do you? I was simply pointing out that keeping English out of kindy probably isn’t for concern about the children learning two languages, even if that’s the reason they say aloud. There must be some other reason.
I’m fully in favor of bilingual/multi-lingual children. And I’m NOT in favor of the government dictating something as private as language use in the home.
You don’t think I was actually suggesting families not speak the language of their choice, do you? .[/quote][/quote][/quote]
NO not you NTLT
My reply to was to Whole Lotta Lotta’s post, it was he who suggested banning kids learning Taiwanese in the home :loco: :loco:
Uh, he was making a sarcastic observation.
“If they really believe that bilingualism hurts children, why not attempt to stop kids from learning Taiwanese in the family home?”
i.e. the government doesn’t actually believe that bilingualism hurts children, it’s just a cover (though to be honest, if they tried to ban Taiyu at home because ‘bilingualism hurts children’ they would first have to admit that Taiwanese is a language, which would go against all sorts of unification brainwashing. I have met a few people who think they should only teach their kids mandarin though :loco: ).
Haha! SatTV doesn’t understand sarcasm. He’s Taiwanese! 
You know I have never even thought of that ?[/quote]
Nobody tells you what language to learn at home and I cannot believe you stupidly suggest what you did. Just as in the US where kids speak say Spanish at home and learn English as a second language, many kids here speak Taiwanese / Hakka / Aboriginal languages at home at home but need to learn Mandarin at school and at Kindy. Perhaps because they are learning Mandarin as a second language the government policy makers decided thats enough for the poor kiddies. Maybe they have the proper educationcal qualifictions to make those policies, and whether or not you agree with them, it is what they have decided upon. I don’t think the kiddies learning English with a few 30 minute classes a week would hurt them too much either.
It’s great to here these Taiwanese speaking kindy kids saying wan tuu swee, ah bwee she.[/quote]
Um…you completely do not understand my sarcasm here and what the person I quoted was originally saying was that if the government is going to make laws saying what languages you can teach at kindergarten, what is to stop them from making further bans on where English can be taught or what other subjects can be taught at kindergartens.
Maybe they have the proper educational qualifications to those policies? They should only make those decisions if they indeed do have the proper qualifications. Let’s see evidence of those qualifications. The government inspects businesses to see that they have the proper qualifications for whatever they do. Let’s see a little transparency on the government’s part.
And, if they have the proper qualifications, they should be able to come up with a study that proves their point. They should be able to provide some kind of evidence that the decision they made was the correct one. Where is the evidence of this?
As has been stated before, I do not believe this decision was necessarily made in the best interests of the children, but was made as another way big government can interfere with the private lives of individuals and how they choose to raise their children. To prove me wrong on this, let’s see evidence from the government. Nobody has talked about a way to devise a study to show that they made the right decision. If they could prove they made a good decision (a stance that Korea and Japan have not made BTW. I guess they don’t care as much about their children 
), I would be willing to change my opinion. If they are so sure of their decision, what do they have to be afraid of.
Or maybe a study would produce other results.
Still waiting for the evidence.
Don’t hold your breath.
[quote=“tsukinodeynatsu”]Uh, he was making a sarcastic observation.
“If they really believe that bilingualism hurts children, why not attempt to stop kids from learning Taiwanese in the family home?”
i.e. the government doesn’t actually believe that bilingualism hurts children, it’s just a cover (though to be honest, if they tried to ban Taiyu at home because ‘bilingualism hurts children’ they would first have to admit that Taiwanese is a language, which would go against all sorts of unification brainwashing. I have met a few people who think they should only teach their kids Mandarin though :loco: ).[/quote]
I’m not sure exactly who to quote, so this will have to do. In the handout from the MOE we got from my daughter’s public kindergarten, it doesn’t say the MOE is against bilingualism. It says the MOE believes children should be doing other things at school, not spending time learning a language that is not used in the home. It says if English is a “Mother tongue” they ecnourage parents to use it, and that they encourage parents who speak other languages to teach their children their Mother tongue. We have another parents’ meeting this week so if I get the latest handout, I’ll try to type the relevant section up here.
Personally, my kids go to a school with 1/3 of the kids having one parent from either South East Asia or Mainland China, and I wish we could take advantage of that and have the kids learn a bit of those several languages and cultures, at a stage of their education when they could do it for fun without worrying about time taken up or tests. It’s something to be celebrated. I guess due to life views and situation, I am the only mother who thinks this way, though, as none of the South East Asian mothers have taught their kids any of their language. They told me that Mandarin is very important for education so the kids need to focus on that. I find that much sadder than their kids not learning English at kindy.
Don’t hold your breath.[/quote]
No No, hold your breath.
I am Taiwanese and I have now followed this thread and some others where you ask similar questions. Why would you like the proof? It feels like you want to show that the people in the government are stupid. I think Asiababy gave a good reason as to why they prefer to not have English education in kindergarten. Some of the comments (not you or in this thread) are really hurtful if you consider that for some of us, this is where we were born and this is our country with it’s own problems and faults.
Um… To be internationally competitive and to be able to communicate with the rest of the world out side of Taiwan and China maybe? A good example is Taiwan’s largest industry, semi-conductors. Good luck getting a job in that area without a decent level of English proficiency.
Europeans almost all speak English and learn it in school. The world is better off having a common language. Fortunately or not that language happens to be English.
你不懂西方人的文化… 
There is nothing at all disrespectful, from a Western perspective, in trying to show that people in the Government… any government… are stupid.
That’s fine. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
I happen to believe that children from a very, very young age are language sponges and should, if possible, be exposed to as many different languages as possible. I also believe that the vast majority of schalarly opinion states the same, and this contradicts Taiwan’s MOE position.
Again, you simply do not understand Western culture.
True, some comments may well be ridiculous or otherwise poorly considered. But, if you read these fora, you will see that almost every country on the map has been criticized, and some have been treated very roughly. Taiwan gets much, if not most of the criticism in this forum because most of us are living in Taiwan. For us, it is natural to criticize that which is closest.
You should not be insulted by most of what you read here. If you do feel insulted, well, 你想太多! 
Might not be relevant since the kindy kids that were kept out of Engrish teaching by foreigners are probably now in grade school or early middle school:
http://mag.udn.com/mag/campus/storypage.jsp?f_MAIN_ID=13&f_SUB_ID=104&f_ART_ID=227154
Check out the avg TOEIC scores from tw, jp, and kr on the picture in the article.
I am Taiwanese and I have now followed this thread and some others where you ask similar questions. Why would you like the proof? It feels like you want to show that the people in the government are stupid. I think Asiababy gave a good reason as to why they prefer to not have English education in kindergarten. Some of the comments (not you or in this thread) are really hurtful if you consider that for some of us, this is where we were born and this is our country with it’s own problems and faults.[/quote]
I am sorry if I have offended. That was never my intent 
.
First let me state my political views. This may give you a proper framework that shows how I think in these matters; I am a libertarian.
The reason I think the government should show proof is that I think governments should be transpartent in their actions and give good reasons for their decision making. If they can’t give a good reason for making a decision, they shouldn’t make it. Asking what qualifications a person has to make a decision is an entirely different thing than saying that they are stupid. I was saying that they make the decisions because they are politicians first and people second.
On the contrary, I believe that when a government makes a decision and does not give people the reason for making the decision they are saying that the people are stupid. The government thinks it knows better what is good for the people than the people do. To show this they need to back it up with evidence. I don’t believe this is only true with the Taiwanese government. I believe this is true with all governments (my own included).
[quote=“PigBloodCake”]Might not be relevant since the kindy kids that were kept out of Engrish teaching by foreigners are probably now in grade school or early middle school:
http://mag.udn.com/mag/campus/storypage.jsp?f_MAIN_ID=13&f_SUB_ID=104&f_ART_ID=227154
Check out the avg TOEIC scores from tw, jp, and kr on the picture in the article.[/quote]
Why do you assume with your purposeful mispelling above that all English teaching in kindergartens is of poor quality ?
That said, my ability to read Chinese is very limited.
[quote=“PigBloodCake”]Might not be relevant since the kindy kids that were kept out of Engrish teaching by foreigners are probably now in grade school or early middle school:
[/quote]
Actually I’m wondering if this whole thread is irrelevant. I came here teaching kindy. Sure it was only half of their ‘school day’ (2.5 hours) but they were still getting “Engrish teaching by foreigners”. So I don’t see that anybody who wants English education isn’t getting it…
Also, in my kindy class the kids got more play time, more exercise, more drawing, reading, crafts time than Chinese class ever did- age-appropriate, fun activities. In my opinion, that’s what they need more of.
I think you are experiencing a cultural difference. We foreigners question and criticize everything. It’s almost an artform. And we have no respect for authority. But guess what? I think it leads to improvements. But most of us love Taiwan. That’s why we’re here.
[quote=“wholelottalotta”]
On the contrary, I believe that when a government makes a decision and does not give people the reason for making the decision they are saying that the people are stupid. The government thinks it knows better what is good for the people than the people do. To show this they need to back it up with evidence. [/quote]
This whole thing was so well said I wanted to quote it all so people would read it twice.
I am Taiwanese and I have now followed this thread and some others where you ask similar questions. Why would you like the proof? It feels like you want to show that the people in the government are stupid. I think Asiababy gave a good reason as to why they prefer to not have English education in kindergarten. Some of the comments (not you or in this thread) are really hurtful if you consider that for some of us, this is where we were born and this is our country with it’s own problems and faults.[/quote]
「Why would you like the proof?」你這個問題我覺得好恐怖。你真的那麼相信政府的話啊？
WLL, I think you need a chill pill. My tongue was firmly stuck on my cheek as I was typing that.
That’s sad. Unfortunately we’re not in California where every instruction comes in both English and Spanish 
I am Taiwanese and I have now followed this thread and some others where you ask similar questions. Why would you like the proof? It feels like you want to show that the people in the government are stupid. I think Asiababy gave a good reason as to why they prefer to not have English education in kindergarten. Some of the comments (not you or in this thread) are really hurtful if you consider that for some of us, this is where we were born and this is our country with it’s own problems and faults.[/quote]
Like what Tigerman said: 你想太多ㄌ,這裡ㄉ外國人寫字都嗎帶有幽默和諷刺.
可能你不爽他們的諷刺,但他們也會批評自己國家的法規,個人行為,etc.
不用太在意ㄌㄚ,連我都沒在意(或許我在美國住的時間太長ㄌ 
).
I am Taiwanese and I have now followed this thread and some others where you ask similar questions. Why would you like the proof? It feels like you want to show that the people in the government are stupid. I think Asiababy gave a good reason as to why they prefer to not have English education in kindergarten. Some of the comments (not you or in this thread) are really hurtful if you consider that for some of us, this is where we were born and this is our country with it’s own problems and faults.[/quote]
「Why would you like the proof?」你這個問題我覺得好恐怖。你真的那麼相信政府的話啊？[/quote]
拜託阿,選前講一套選後做一套,美牛就是一個很好的例子.
Hmm…but then I grew up eating it 
:ohreally: