For all the posters that like to sound off on American foreign policy particularly with regard to Iraq, let me remind that in the words of one well known politician, “you’se gots to pay to play.”
So given that European and Canadian and Allied force levels in Bosnia and Kosovo are insufficient and ditto for Afghanistan, what would be contributed to Iraq that would make changes in American foreign policy meaningful? For example, what would each of these nations be willing to contribute to make it worth America’s while to see the need for compromise? Ditto for the United Nations fans. What will it contribute? How much? When? For how long? etc. Most peacekeeping operations are already paid for by the Americans as is 25 percent of the total budget? Is someone willing to take on more responsibilities? Say for example, Germany or Japan who both have their eye on a permanent seat in the UN security council?
As with any club or organization, the positions of leadership should go to those most willing to participate actively. Anyone’s thoughts on this.
Fine if you want to look at it that way Spook, but if we do so, then I expect that we can look forward to “silence is golden?” I mean if we are the ones doing all the paying, then I don’t see any reason for noisy dissatisfaction from the other patrons in the store, who
a. do not own the store or the merchandise.
b. will not be held responsible for the breakage in any way.
But, Fred, be fair. You’re standing in the middle of the store in your underwear shouting at the top of your lungs about how you’re getting ready to break something else and how God told you to do it.
I’m just trying to talk you back down before you hurt yourself or someone else.
No, Spook. Fred is standing in the middle of the store shouting his pants while NOW telling the rest of us such and such. But only after he has disowned the store owner and taken over by force. He’s the man in town that owns the power plant, has the police in his pocket, forecloses on the poor farmer, and tells us to play fair.
Sounds like a plot-line from a Homer Simpson episode to me.
I’ll buy that.
My goal is simple. I’m just trying to de-program “Fred” from his evil neoMessianicComplex ways and turn him into the catalyst for a wholesale transformation of his errant brethren.
I plan to call it Neoconservatives Anonymous.
"Hi, my name if Fred Smith and I’m a neoconservative . . . "
Latest figures show that 1,500 Iraqis have died during the occupation and 600 coalition troops in a nation of 25 million with 150,000 troops occupying. Given the 1 year and three months that have gone by, you do the math and be sure and tell me what the definition of a disaster and quagmire are. Don’t worry about me Spook. I will be serving prominently in the next and the next and the next administrations.
And as to you JB:
Of course, I own the farm otherwise how would you have such nice produce at Fredfest? Be grateful that you have not incurred my displeasure or those police in my pocket might be after you. haha Now don’t forget to play nice AND fair.
He means 1,500 of our Kurdish allies. The rest were clearly all terrorists, and the children we killed, why, they were clearly going to grow into terrorists, so we simply nipped them in the bud.
Actually, I agree with Spook. Once deprogrammed from their insane desire to have an Empire abroad and a tyranny at home, perhaps the NeoCons may be able to lead useful and productive lives.
9,000 to 11,000 has been revised as far as I know. Amnesty International and one other organization put the TOTAL deaths at 5,000 to 10,000 but most likely closer to 5,000 and the OCCUPATION is 1,500 including all murders and kidnappings and what not. Fair enough I guess since crime was fairly low during the Saddam reign of terror, but regardless, how do such low death tolls a quagmire make? We just had more flood victims in Haiti and the Dominican Republic and the figure is 10 times less than the number who died in the heat wave in France last year? Can you say media bias?
Anyway, al Sadr and Fallujah were a jolt to my complacency but things do not seem to have followed the dire path that many journalists once again predicted that they would. Makes you wonder why the journalists can wait forever to announce good news but seem to have a crystal ball when it comes to predicting disasters. Now, would anyone care to prove me wrong on that? Has major media group been touting Iraqi success stories without proof as opposed to disasters without proof? I mean these newspapers and TV stations could just as easily be erring on the side of overly positive. But have they ever? Nope.
One good sign that the story is over as far as the media is concerned (abu Ghraib and the insurgency) is that once again today important news like the Laci Peterson murder case in the Bay Area is front page. Does that tell you that America is going back to normal or what? Next up J Lo’s summer collection and how revealing it is? Vote in our online poll about whether you support women baring so much flesh in public.
Thanks Rascal for supporting us on global warming. I assume that we can finally expect some rational thought from you and your ilk on finally canning the Kyoto Protocol. Hurray! Rascal supports Bush and the Republicans in believing that we cannot control natural disasters.
The problem with your analogy Fred is that it doesn’t go far enough. Before the war began I argued with Tigerman that the US should not invade Iraq without broader support because we were all going to be affected by this war. To give a petty example, I have to pay more for my Canadian passport, and jump through far more hoops than before because of security concerns exacerbated by 911 and the war in Iraq. My brother works for Indian Affairs. The departments budget was slashed last year to help pay for security measures that have had to be put in place in part because of US foreign policy.
So yes, we all get to complain becasue we are all westerners who will feel the brunt of US policy in one way or another whether we agree with it out not. Or do you think Al Quaeda bombs only target neocons? Fred, you’re acting like a shithead friend who picks fights that draw other people in.
Fred your attempts to paint the war as nothing stronger than a police action may have worked last year but these days? Business is doing much more poorly now in Iraq as major companies pull out and construction projects are left unfinished due to concerns over security. This does not happen in California or any other western nation even when there is a high crime right. The UN is situated in New York city. Has any diplomat or aid worker ever fled because of street crime? Has any business ever decided against investing in Silocon Valley because there’s too much Blood and Crip warfare in east LA?
Media bias? Fred, turn on any channel or read any paper and you can see scathing criticism of the way this war has been handled by former generals, top advisers to the president, CIA officials, the Army War College, and so on. It would be outrageous media bias if there wasn’t a chorus of criticism coming out.
Sorry but unless you can show why you understand the situation better than the many, many intelligent, knowlegable people who frequently come out lambasting the war, I and others will continue to dismiss you as the one who is biased.
Sorry the security measures were instituted because of 911 not US action in Iraq so put the blame where it belongs on
a. the Islamofascists who started all of this
b. Canada for its ridiculous multiculturalism that allows Hezbollah and Hamas to live within its borders as asylum seekers.
Given that Canada has a net benefit to the tune of billions of defense dollars given its location behind American defenses, cry me a river about any budget cuts that your brother and his Indian Affairs budget are facing. Wah! Why not cut some of the excess that goes to fund bilingual Canada or the huge subsidies that go to keep the French Canadians happy? These dwarf any “security measures” that you might need to fund. Finally, why is there an Indian Affairs bureau anyway? Aren’t Canadians enlightened people who respect ALL cultures and peoples especially violent ones from the Middle East? Why a special bureau for Indians?
Next, Canada is not involved in this fight. You are not disproportionately losing out in any way because of American action in Iraq. If you are, proove it. We have every right in America to determine what level of security we will implement and you will just have to deal with it if you want to visit. Surely, a 20 second fingerprint and photo is something you can live with (only the first time). Subsequent visits do not require it.
Finally, where is the disaster? 800 dead in 1 year and 3 months. 85 percent of construction and contract work is going ahead as of today. You are thinking of the events immediately following the Fallujah and al Sadr uprisings. Where are those insurgencies now? Hmmm?
So sorry, this is our fight and we are paying for it both in terms of blood and money and YOU as a Canadian have contributed nothing. Therefore, keep you opinion to yourself. haha eh?
Fred trust you to ignore the real message when it does not suit your somewhat skewed version of reality.
Whilst no one can directly control natural disasters, countries such as the US with their inane stand over the Kyoto Protocol can and do influence the occurence and strength of such natural disasters in an adverse manner.
While so much is made of the deaths in Iraq, what will France do this year to avoid a repeat of last summer’s carnage in France… that carnage could have been avoided with air conditioning.
Don’t blame me. One of your German buddies suggested that we have no control over natural disasters. I merely agreed. Blame him for his shameless profiteering at the expense of our environment. Ironic isn’t it? I mean you working at a car company and all complaining about the environment. That is sort of like a tobacco company executive complaining about lung cancer isn’t it?
