Zain Dean conviction--fatal hit & run case PART IV

[quote=“tommy525”]In the USA they have jury who decide if there is more then reasonable doubt that someone is guilty.

OJ Simpson was excused by the jury but I think most Americans feel he was guilty.

Most people feel ZD’s actions after the fact to indicate guilt in a more then reasonable doubt manner.

He would not have served the whole sentence most likely.

Mostly likely get out after half time.

I don’t know for sure if he was guilty or not. But his actions are certainly not typical of one who is innocent.[/quote]

The actions of fleeing the jurisdiction or filing appeals? The car thing was a bit weird alright but I think his gf was exonerated for that.
The problem is one can make up your own perceived intentions for the same set of events. I’m not saying he is innocent or guilty, but it’s easy to frame events in a way to make people look guilty if the media takes a certain angle and overlooks all the facts and just chooses some of them to broadcast.
Even then looking guilty is not the same as being guilty.

Yes appearing guilty is not 100pct actually guilty. Same as when OJ Simpson led the police on that car chase and all that.

The jury found him innocent. One does not know who to believe eh?

No such thing in Britain. The Prevention of Terrorism act allows courts to restrict the movements of particularly but not exclusively foreign nationals in Britain suspected of terrorism, such as Abu Qatada, but that would never happen in Dean’s case.

Unless they find the extraction request groundless, he stays behind bars. He is too much of a flight risk - proven even.

[quote=“achdizzy1099”]The Taiwan delegation has ‘requested’ the UK government to honor the judgement levied against Zain Dean.

The Lugano Convention applies to most EU states and most EFTA countries. Not Taiwan.

No one knows much about the first case that spurred the UK to request reparations from TW, but the lead of this story is ‘Quid Pro Quo’.

Basically, Taiwan refused to honor a judgement from the UK, and looked like assholes. Now Taiwan has returned the favor. It is all legal pageantry. Unlikely anything will come of this.

These TW lawyers are quite clever though. I’d love to see which western law schools they attended. :whistle:

T[/quote]

I’m not sure that I am following your comments above. :ponder:

In fact, Taiwan and the UK recognize and enforce each other’s judgments (where permitted by their respective laws) on a reciprocal basis, or at least on the basis of a promise to reciprocate. Whenever any court from any jurisdiction outside of Taiwan makes a requests for judicial assistance from a Taiwan court, the request from the foreign court must contain a promise from the foreign court to consider a similar request from Taiwan in return. This is standard.

[quote]I’m not sure that I am following your comments above. :ponder:

In fact, Taiwan and the UK recognize and enforce each other’s judgments (where permitted by their respective laws) on a reciprocal basis, or at least on the basis of a promise to reciprocate. Whenever any court from any jurisdiction outside of Taiwan makes a requests for judicial assistance from a Taiwan court, the request from the foreign court must contain a promise from the foreign court to consider a similar request from Taiwan in return. This is standard.[/quote]

well, i read your comment and also re-read the article. My comment was made assuming that the ROC had not yet granted the UK request for compensation. I read it as if the ROC would not grant the request until a similar request could be made in return. This is why my comment reads as it does.

The author of the article never confirmed that the request by the UK was granted by the ROC.

[quote]Taipei Times

Shen said the idea to ask the UK court to recognize the civil verdict came after the representative office found that the UK had asked Taiwan for recognition of a UK ruling in a British civil suit and had promised to consider a similar request from Taiwan in return.[/quote]

My opinion is that Zain is criminally ‘not guilty’ and civilly ‘liable’. He should pay the money.

I don’t know how long this extradition process will take, but I do not believe Zain Dean will ever step foot on TW soil again.

T

We will know more next week, after his hearing.

I am willing to wager that he will be sent back eventually.

Won’t happen. There’s no mechanism for this to happen retroactively and there’s no way the British courts would let him ‘pay his way out’. Unless the defendant was wealthy, the claimant would sue the insurance company in Britain. He was not insured in Britain.

They need to send him to Taiwan. But obviously, they won’t get any money then, either.

[quote=“achdizzy1099”]

I don’t know how long this extradition process will take, but I do not believe Zain Dean will ever step foot on TW soil again.

T[/quote]

ZD will stay in jail until he has exhausted his appeals. I doubt he will win those appeals. He is just extending time he will spend in prison.
He won’t willingly step foot back here again. He has one last chance and that is to release the video he claims he has in his possession proving he wasn’t driving at time of accident.

As a matter of policy, Taiwan does recognize UK judgments and enforce the same subject to relevant Taiwan law.

Below are posts that I have made previously:

Re Taiwan’s Enforcement of Foreign Judgments:

[quote]Recognition and enforcement of foreign judgments by Taiwan courts is determined by application of Article 402 of Taiwan’s Code of Civil Procedure. As a general rule, a Taiwan court will recognize and enforce a final and irrevocable foreign court judgment award or court decision unless any of the following circumstances apply to such foreign court judgment:

(1) The foreign court has no jurisdiction over the case, as determined by Taiwan law;

(2) The losing party defendant is a Taiwan citizen or Taiwan entity that did not respond to the action, except where a summons or order necessary for the commencement of the action was properly served on the defendant in the foreign jurisdiction or was served on said losing party defendant in Taiwan through Taiwan’s judicial assistance;

(3) The judgment of the foreign court is considered to be incompatible with the public order or good morals of Taiwan (one example of conduct that violates this is when the foreign court does not indicate the reasons for its decision in the judgment); or

(4) Judgments or court decisions rendered by Taiwan courts are not reciprocally recognized by the courts in the foreign jurisdiction where the judgment or court decision was rendered.

It should be noted that in an recognition proceeding, the Taiwan court is, according to relevant Taiwan law, not supposed to review the investigation of the merits of the claim, which have already been heard and tried by the foreign court. Instead, the Taiwan court is supposed to focus instead on reviewing and determining whether any of the circumstances set forth at Article 402 disqualify the foreign court decision from being recognized and enforced in Taiwan. In practice, however, defendants in Taiwan often repeatedly argue the merits of the claim, which have already been heard and tried before the foreign court, and Taiwan courts often look into these arguments and defenses. This of course adds to the time needed for and expense of obtaining a recognition and enforcement of a foreign judgment in Taiwan.[/quote]

Re UK’s Enforcement of Foreign Judgments:

[quote]UK’s conditions for recoginition and enforcement of foreign judgements:

Registration of a judgment pursuant to the 1933 Act will be set aside if the court is satisfied:

(1) The judgment is not a judgment to which the Act applies or was registered in contravention of the provisions of the Act; or

(2) The courts of the Country of the original court had no jurisdiction (according to the English rules of private international law) in the circumstances of the case; or

(3) The judgment debtor being the defendant in the proceedings in the original court did not, (notwithstanding that process may have been duly served on him in accordance with the law of the Country of the original court), receive notice of those proceedings in sufficient time to enable it to defend the proceedings and did not appear; or

(4) The judgment was obtained by fraud; or

(5) The enforcement of the judgment would be contrary to English public policy; or

(6) The rights under the judgment are not vested in the person by whom the application for registration was made.

The catch-all, is no. 5 above. I don’t know how the UK courts would view the Taiwanese process and or the final judgment of the Taiwan court.[/quote]

everyone is looking at the laws with whichever tinted glasses they please. Every law is written to be wiggled out of. especially extradition laws.

As I have stated before: this is a matter of politics, not law. If Scotland is prepared to send one of its citizens. A minority at that, back to a country of lesser freedom (not to mention in the process of reunifying with one of the most oppressive countries in the world), then that is who they are and that is what they do.

There was once a time when the UK had an empire and did what it wanted. I’m guessing they still have a bit of that in them.

T

OK, explain to me, what exactly does the British Empire have to do with a drunk driver in Taipei?

[quote=“the sly dog”][quote=“achdizzy1099”]

I don’t know how long this extradition process will take, but I do not believe Zain Dean will ever step foot on TW soil again.

T[/quote]

ZD will stay in jail until he has exhausted his appeals. I doubt he will win those appeals. He is just extending time he will spend in prison.
He won’t willingly step foot back here again. He has one last chance and that is to release the video he claims he has in his possession proving he wasn’t driving at time of accident.[/quote]

I must have missed this; does he claim to have this video?

Our planet, Earth, has very little land,but humans have still found a way to break it up into small pieces. We are told there are 7 continents. The different kinds of humans who’ve roamed these continents for millennia have divided this finite terrain up into smaller pieces called countries. There are about 200 of them. Some of these countries are filled with poor people, some are filled with rich people. Some are filled with powerful people, some are filled with powerless people. some are filled with smart people and some are filled with nitwits. Some are filled with people that hug and some are filled with people that hit. These contrasts are what have led to the different borders and governments we now recognize today.

Which superlatives you find more appealing is completely your prerogative, but people and their countries are lumped into two categories: wolves and sheep. Wolves take what they want, sheep are lucky to survive.

Of course here in Asia, when you’re suffocated by cutesy pimple cream commercials and Hello Kitty airplanes, it is easy to forget who and what makes the world go round. I can assure you it’s not a tiny little disputed island ion the outskirts of the North Philippine Sea.

No western country ships their citizens east. Asia is a wasteland of justice. The Zain Dean case was (and still remains) flawed and doubt laden, resulting in a guilty convictions by Kuomintang judges.

Zain got away. He slipped right through their incompetent fingers. His home country will not be sending him back to China.

Wolves and sheep.

T

The UK has deported its own citizens to Thailand before, so you are wrong.

I must have missed this; does he claim to have this video?[/quote]

My understanding is that one video already shown in court in Zain’s opinion shows that the driver’s alibi was wrong. Zain claims to have this video and stills that allegedly show that the “driver returning after a short time” is not the same person (or at least not wearing the same clothes) as the person getting in the driver seat when he was driven off. Since “the driver returning after only a short while” seems to be one of the most critical parts of how he was convicted, he seems to think this might be crucial in proving his innocence.

From here: flob.me/p1514787

[quote]I do have video and stills showing the driver of the car who took me home was not the one ‘that returns 6 minutes later’. These were already shown in court, however, no seemed to be interested on the bench … Pretty much anything the KTV staff said in court was gospel and whatever I did to show my innocence was ‘inconclusive’.
[/quote]

I always found it interesting that this allegation was only made late, after he lost, that is.

[quote=“achdizzy1099”]
No western country ships their citizens east. Asia is a wasteland of justice. The Zain Dean case was (and still remains) flawed and doubt laden, resulting in a guilty convictions by Kuomintang judges.

Zain got away. He slipped right through their incompetent fingers. His home country will not be sending him back to China.
T[/quote]

Plenty of western countries have extradited their own citizens to Asia. ZD may claim his case is flawed, and the High Court in Scotland will assess this claim in the next few days.

Yup they wont send him to China. Why would they his extradition will be to Taiwan. If ZD had gotten away then why is he sitting in jail? He will be extradited imho.

Yes first he claims he can’t identify any driver then a few years later suddenly can make more wild claims that it is someone else altogether. He does this as the actual ktv driver was proven to be back at ktv before accident happened. ZDs car was filmed hitting the
Scooter rider.

In the appeal the judge asked ZD, if you were not driving then who was? ZD had no reply to this. Only after fleeing taiwan, does he make claim about so called video evidence. Now he has his chance to do so. The Scottish judge asked ZD to name the police and judges he claims are corrupt. Again ZD could not name one police officer or judge in his trials as being corrupt. The Scottish judge dismissed his claims being without merit. All ZDs claims against extradtion have been without merit. Same as his claims to be let out on bail. Scottish judge not stupid and knows ZD would only flee again.

The court in Scotland is still considering the merits of Dean’s claim and has not dismissed anything yet. You may be right but your conclusions are premature.