Theory: there is no material that could exonerate him. If he had nothing to hide he would have brought his damaged Mercedes to the police and reported the case, i.e. that someone damaged his car. But rather than doing that he tried to get rid of it. As far as the law is concerned he is guilty and the Scottish authorities locking him up at the request of Taiwan is evidence enough to a fair trial in Taiwan. Scotland would not lock him up or even remotely consider extraditing him if he was sentenced by some Kangaroo court.
[quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“Mr He”]Was it 2 or 3 minutes from when his car hit the delivery man to the seconity cam in his basement parking lot caught him drivingthe damaged car in?
[/quote]
Which was it?[/quote]
I think the time of the accident wasn’t pinned down to within a ten minute range at least.[/quote]
Time of accident is known and published in court record. That time line also discussed on flob from court record. The court has a vid pic of ZD‘s car on Chunghsiao east road just a short distance prior to where accident was.
What videos? There are no videos under lock and key. ZD claimed that there should be more videos.
ZD posted on taiwanease that he will release videos proving his innocence. But he has not shown anything. So ask ZD when will his video will be released. There is no missing video evidence that yo wrote about.
Chris did u read court transcript?
[quote=“red rat”][quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“Mr He”]Was it 2 or 3 minutes from when his car hit the delivery man to the seconity cam in his basement parking lot caught him drivingthe damaged car in?
[/quote]
Which was it?[/quote]
I think the time of the accident wasn’t pinned down to within a ten minute range at least.[/quote]
Time of accident is known and published in court record. That time line also discussed on flob from court record. The court has a vid pic of ZD‘s car on Zhongxiao east road just a short distance prior to where accident was.[/quote]
I’ve read a lot of it too, there is no exact time for the accident to occur.
There was also no clear timeline established for various individuals returning or getting in and out of cars. The individuals could not be identified clearly. The witness statements were unclear and conflicting and the witnesses could not be trusted to be impartial due to their relationship to each other and the establishment that they all worked for.
There are tonnes of holes and ambiguities in the case, nevertheless , despite the pathetic missing video evidence (for whatever reason) and lack of proof of who was doing what where, the judge did decide that Dean was most likely the perpetrator (which I agree that he was most likely the perpetrator, but the case put together didn’t really help to SHOW that in a professional manner).
Making statements that somebody is guilty from perceived actions of guilt, that’s just spinning the story this way or that. What is simply needed is more evidence of timelines and individuals, who was doing what where, not amateur hour perceptions attributed to a given behaviour (also I believe Dean’s girlfriend was cleared of some of these original assisting the crime charges, but was subsequently sentenced to 5 months jail for assisting Dean escape).
It’s all old divisive arguments though, don’t want to get into that again.
What about the laws in the UK regarding Zain and his ID theft and use of a passport which was not his own? I’m not an expert on UK law, but isn’t using a passport which is not your own a case of fraud? Won’t he get jail like super mouse did for fraud and id theft when he was deported back, or will they just tag it onto his term in Taiwan or use his current time on remand as time towards that crime?
[quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“red rat”][quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“Mr He”]Was it 2 or 3 minutes from when his car hit the delivery man to the seconity cam in his basement parking lot caught him drivingthe damaged car in?
[/quote]
Which was it?[/quote]
I think the time of the accident wasn’t pinned down to within a ten minute range at least.[/quote]
Time of accident is known and published in court record. That time line also discussed on flob from court record. The court has a vid pic of ZD‘s car on Zhongxiao east road just a short distance prior to where accident was.[/quote]
I’ve read a lot of it too, there is no exact time for the accident to occur.
There was also no clear timeline established for various individuals returning or getting in and out of cars. The individuals could not be identified clearly. The witness statements were unclear and conflicting and the witnesses could not be trusted to be impartial due to their relationship to each other and the establishment that they all worked for.
There are tonnes of holes and ambiguities in the case, nevertheless , despite the pathetic missing video evidence (for whatever reason) and lack of proof of who was doing what where, the judge did decide that Dean was most likely the perpetrator (which I agree that he was most likely the perpetrator, but the case put together didn’t really help to SHOW that in a professional manner).
Making statements that somebody is guilty from perceived actions of guilt, that’s just spinning the story this way or that. What is simply needed is more evidence of timelines and individuals, who was doing what where, not amateur hour perceptions attributed to a given behaviour (also I believe Dean’s girlfriend was cleared of some of these original assisting the crime charges, but was subsequently sentenced to 5 months jail for assisting Dean escape).
It’s all old divisive arguments though, don’t want to get into that again.[/quote]
Apart from ZD’s aim to let the police video tape evidence get overwritten (by not actively seeking to ensure it was saved asap), to help himself manufacture reasonable doubt, plus his not making any effort to get other security camera footage from the entire route=something I have harped on about many times, the logical point was if the accident was 6 minutes before him arriving home (they have the time he arrived home on camera, and he lives 5-6 minutes from the scene of the accident, there was no time for him to wake up, tell the KTV driver to pull over, change seats, and drive slowly home.
maps.google.com/maps?saddr=%E5% … sz=17&z=17
Plus people who knew him know he often used to drive a little drunk…
I can’t read this, but this is from an earlier forumosa thread:
forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 3#p1450033
[quote]1.被告林克穎雖否認當天是由卓俊呈駕車載其離開，並稱監
視器畫面中之駕駛人衣著與證人卓俊呈不同云云。然該肇
事車輛係由證人卓俊呈駕駛離開名亨酒店，除經證人卓俊
呈、林瑋俊、姬文宇指證在卷外，亦與本院勘驗現場監視
器畫面顯示：卓俊呈自99年3 月25日上午4時8分許，除偶
有拿取鑰匙往返外，均停留在名亨酒店代客停車台處，直
至上午4 時43分，被告林克穎與池國明、姬文宇出現在該
處，4 時44分許卓俊呈（穿著灰色短袖上衣、黑色背心）
打開抽屜拿取鑰匙自畫面右側離開，4 時49分許本案車輛
駛入畫面停於路旁，一同樣穿著灰色短袖上衣、黑色背心
之男子（無法辨識面貌）多次出現在該車駕駛座外側，4
時50分許，池國明開啟右前座門車，讓被告林克穎上車，
未久該車亦駛離現場，直至4 時56分始見卓俊呈再次出由
監視器畫面右下角出現，並持續停留在停車檯處等情節相
符（見本院卷一第253至254頁）。且除證人卓俊呈外，亦
未見有何其他名亨酒店停車人員，有隨本案車輛駛離而消
失於該區域監視器畫面之情形，此有前述監視影像及其連[/quote]
ZD’s goose is cooked. It is just a matter of how long.
[quote=“Kea”][quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“red rat”][quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“Mr He”]Was it 2 or 3 minutes from when his car hit the delivery man to the seconity cam in his basement parking lot caught him drivingthe damaged car in?
[/quote]
Which was it?[/quote]
I think the time of the accident wasn’t pinned down to within a ten minute range at least.[/quote]
Time of accident is known and published in court record. That time line also discussed on flob from court record. The court has a vid pic of ZD‘s car on Zhongxiao east road just a short distance prior to where accident was.[/quote]
I’ve read a lot of it too, there is no exact time for the accident to occur.
There was also no clear timeline established for various individuals returning or getting in and out of cars. The individuals could not be identified clearly. The witness statements were unclear and conflicting and the witnesses could not be trusted to be impartial due to their relationship to each other and the establishment that they all worked for.
There are tonnes of holes and ambiguities in the case, nevertheless , despite the pathetic missing video evidence (for whatever reason) and lack of proof of who was doing what where, the judge did decide that Dean was most likely the perpetrator (which I agree that he was most likely the perpetrator, but the case put together didn’t really help to SHOW that in a professional manner).
Making statements that somebody is guilty from perceived actions of guilt, that’s just spinning the story this way or that. What is simply needed is more evidence of timelines and individuals, who was doing what where, not amateur hour perceptions attributed to a given behaviour (also I believe Dean’s girlfriend was cleared of some of these original assisting the crime charges, but was subsequently sentenced to 5 months jail for assisting Dean escape).
It’s all old divisive arguments though, don’t want to get into that again.[/quote]
Apart from ZD’s aim to let the police video tape evidence get overwritten (by not actively seeking to ensure it was saved asap), to help himself manufacture reasonable doubt, plus his not making any effort to get other security camera footage from the entire route=something I have harped on about many times, the logical point was if the accident was 6 minutes before him arriving home (they have the time he arrived home on camera, and he lives 5-6 minutes from the scene of the accident, there was no time for him to wake up, tell the KTV driver to pull over, change seats, and drive slowly home.
maps.google.com/maps?saddr=%E5% … sz=17&z=17
Plus people who knew him know he often used to drive a little drunk…
I can’t read this, but this is from an earlier forumosa thread:
forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 3#p1450033
[quote]1.被告林克穎雖否認當天是由卓俊呈駕車載其離開，並稱監
視器畫面中之駕駛人衣著與證人卓俊呈不同云云。然該肇
事車輛係由證人卓俊呈駕駛離開名亨酒店，除經證人卓俊
呈、林瑋俊、姬文宇指證在卷外，亦與本院勘驗現場監視
器畫面顯示：卓俊呈自99年3 月25日上午4時8分許，除偶
有拿取鑰匙往返外，均停留在名亨酒店代客停車台處，直
至上午4 時43分，被告林克穎與池國明、姬文宇出現在該
處，4 時44分許卓俊呈（穿著灰色短袖上衣、黑色背心）
打開抽屜拿取鑰匙自畫面右側離開，4 時49分許本案車輛
駛入畫面停於路旁，一同樣穿著灰色短袖上衣、黑色背心
之男子（無法辨識面貌）多次出現在該車駕駛座外側，4
時50分許，池國明開啟右前座門車，讓被告林克穎上車，
未久該車亦駛離現場，直至4 時56分始見卓俊呈再次出由
監視器畫面右下角出現，並持續停留在停車檯處等情節相
符（見本院卷一第253至254頁）。且除證人卓俊呈外，亦
未見有何其他名亨酒店停車人員，有隨本案車輛駛離而消
失於該區域監視器畫面之情形，此有前述監視影像及其連[/quote][/quote]
Have these times been calibrated? Using what system? Since no mention of calibration is made which is the correct time? The police didn’t collect public video evidence along the route, and we are to believe they calibrated all the times?
These are simple simple things that can tear through a case timeline like this.
Working back from the time of Dean arriving at the house is not good enough, because the time stamp on his video was probably not calibrated, nor does anybody know exactly what time the accident happened.
That was the police job to do, they didn’t do it. This fact seems to be ignored. The public camera system could help with calibration but no evidence seems to have been presented.
Then there is the manner people state ‘Dean didn’t look for the evidence that could be used to exonerate him until it was too late’.
Anybody hear of innocent until proven guilty instead of guilty until proven innocent?
He’s supposed to be proven guilty not innocent!
You need to give people a proper trial and make an effort to collect all the evidence promptly and professionally rather than trying to railroad people, whether they are innocent or guilty.
[quote=“headhonchoII”]Have these times been calibrated? Using what system? Since no mention of calibration is made which is the correct time? The police didn’t collect public video evidence along the route, and we are to believe they calibrated all the times?
These are simple simple things that can tear through a case timeline like this.
Working back from the time of Dean arriving at the house is not good enough, because the time stamp on his video was probably not calibrated, nor does anybody know exactly what time the accident happened.
That was the police job to do, they didn’t do it. This fact seems to be ignored. The public camera system could help with calibration but no evidence seems to have been presented.
Then there is the manner people state ‘Dean didn’t look for the evidence that could be used to exonerate him until it was too late’.
Anybody hear of innocent until proven guilty instead of guilty until proven innocent?
He’s supposed to be proven guilty not innocent!
You need to give people a proper trial and make an effort to collect all the evidence promptly and professionally rather than trying to railroad people, whether they are innocent or guilty.[/quote]
I entirely agree, but this is Taiwan and as an outsider he was under strong pressure from the first second of being found. You’re a sensible man, but in this case your assertions are not realistic. I also find it interesting to see the people who support ZD in this case.
If I were in ZD’s shoes (and I do not drink and drive -NEVER) and if I knew I had not been driving the car then you can be completely sure I would do everything I could to exonerate myself. The first thing I would do is, accompanied by diplomatic representative and lawyer and TV camera, publicly make every effort to get or see all videos of the route along the way. Instead he sat on his hands and waited for the video evidence which could have exonerated him to be overwritten (2 weeks or longer).
Look at it this way-perhaps the cameras are calibrated correctly. Surely whoever set the building camera up would have done it with reasonable care, and would be within 1/2 a minute, either way. Perhaps the time of the accident is recorded correctly. Both assertions, which have more chance of being correct than your guess, place ZD at the scene of the accident, in control of the vehicle. Given the available video evidence has been through the court system and resulted in a conviction, it’s more credible than the assertions of ZD fans. ZD did not effectively disprove the evidence, and was convicted. If he’d accepted his conviction with reluctant grace (apologising for creating the situation for the death) he’d now be a free man, and would have gained a lot of support along the way. Instead, he appealed, got a longer sentence, and ran away on another’s passport. I see nothing in his actions to support, from the times he (allegedly) previously drunk and drove, to when he chose to drive to the KTV, then drink and completely lose control of himself -to the extent he was passed out (why would he do that in front of a potential benefactor), then not take a taxi home, to now. Taxis are so cheap. Perhaps, to ZD, life is as well. As another forum owner carelessly asserts: Dead is dead. Poor TW young man and family.
Taiwan is a wonderfully relaxed and free country. Many people get away with minor transgressions of the law. Taking his car to a KTV is something he’d done on occasion before (reports allege he’d driven home drunk-a major legal and moral transgression), and this time his luck ran out.
To me it’s not about being a Dean fan or not. I don’t think he has too many fans out there now anyway.
To me it’s mainly the worry that I or my nearest and dearest would be tried by a justice system that is half arsed.
Not collecting video evidence in a hit and run that resulted in a death, that’s the police fault and leaves you scratching your head. Either they are extremely incompetent or lying.
Then you have all these other details that seem like facts but when you drill into them you find they are mostly assumptions.
If we are all making so many assumptions why don’t I assume the police are bent in DaAn district, I mean they have the track record just like Dean and his drinking?
Why don’t I assume the KTV is paying the local police bribes, is it possible to operate such a business without payments?
Should I assume these KTV witness statements are genuine and they have not colluded ?
Why not? These are all reasonable assumptions according to me.
Note- these are independent of whether Dean is guilty or not. I don’t believe in a facsimile of justice just to see ‘justice is done’.
This post is from another affair:
That’s a joke right? fack his human rights!!![/quote] forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 23#p778323
When I first read that post, it made me angry. But having read and reflected on the threads about the Zain Dean case, I can’t help but feel a kind of admiration for that fellow’s simple, straightforward approach to the matter.
Unless I misunderstand, at the end of the month the court plans to hear testimony from witnesses in Taiwan by live video link:
[quote]英國法官馬凱弗(Kenneth MacIver)最後宣布，2月26日到28日再繼續審理，安排6名在台灣的證人以視訊方式作證。
法官最後宣布，2月底再繼續審理，以視訊方式安排台灣6名證人作證，因為台灣與英國目前有8小時時差，需要再作相關安排。[/quote]
news.rti.org.tw/index_newsConten … nid=481357
Does that mean it is all over for him if he stumps up a quarter of a mil US? Surely if he is innocent he will contest that.
No, it means that they can go for his assets in the EU. The criminal case still proceeds.
If only he’d taken a cab that fateful night…
The Taiwan delegation has ‘requested’ the UK government to honor the judgement levied against Zain Dean.
The Lugano Convention applies to most EU states and most EFTA countries. Not Taiwan.
No one knows much about the first case that spurred the UK to request reparations from TW, but the lead of this story is ‘Quid Pro Quo’.
Basically, Taiwan refused to honor a judgement from the UK, and looked like assholes. Now Taiwan has returned the favor. It is all legal pageantry. Unlikely anything will come of this.
These TW lawyers are quite clever though. I’d love to see which western law schools they attended. 
T
chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/nati … -could.htm
IF he stays in custody in UK long enough he will have completed the 4 year term Taiwan had him going in for. What happens then? Will he still go to jail again in Taiwan for the 4 years or will time served in UK count?
Or maybe TW will just drop the extradition after he has served that long?
In the USA they have jury who decide if there is more then reasonable doubt that someone is guilty.
OJ Simpson was excused by the jury but I think most Americans feel he was guilty.
Most people feel ZD’s actions after the fact to indicate guilt in a more then reasonable doubt manner.
He would not have served the whole sentence most likely.
Mostly likely get out after half time.
I don’t know for sure if he was guilty or not. But his actions are certainly not typical of one who is innocent.
Jury? of the people? ROC?
certainly a decision by an local impartial judge in Taiwan matches up to western standards.
This is due to taiwan’s steadfast history of law enforcement, civic integrity and justice. Long history.
as I said earlier: legal pageantry.
it’s like the ‘flight simulator’ of international law. good, consequence free practice.
As for Zain, Tommy raises a good point. What would happen if the duration of lockup is longer than the original sentence?
My guess is that if the case is still ongoing after this Friday, he’ll be released to house arrest pending further motions.
My gut tells me that Zain on a long house arrest is a best case scenario for the TW delegation in this case.
T