Zarqawi dead?

Politics International Politics
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My beef about this is, that if the Middle East and in particular Muslims want all you claim they want (democracy? or is that just a stepping stone so some clerics can be voted into power for a new theocracy?) how about they bring it about? Especially pay for it. I do not really mind if they use money, time, lives or their ‘pride’ for that.

If Saddam was the best Iraq could come up with as a secular government, then be it. And if civil war is a past time in Algeria, up to the Algerians. If the Mid East likes its local religious floklore (car bombs, veiled women, terrorism) then let them have fun with it all over the mid East and up to Morocco if they want to. And keep it in mind when their so called “poor and downtrodden” want to emmigrate.

Your avatar fits Fred. Same whiney “we got too help these poooooor brown people, boo-hoo-hoo” sob as from Fischer’s Greens. You joined his party already?

The latter is about as much help as the Muslims world deserves in my eyes. Last I heard French police was dealing with Arab youths in the suburbs of Paris. And that’s about as much “help” as I am willing to support for the Muslim world. Help those out of the West who have too many problems fitting in there. They may fit in a lot better at home maybe, where they may mess up their own countires as much as they like to.

Yup - every heart-bleeding do-gooder. Count me out though if you can and pick some other word for “everybody” because I frankly could not care less how exactly people like to kill each other in Sudan.

I heard a similar whiney rant about the poooooor Somalians from the Greens for years and it sounded lame all the time. Petty distractions from a lack of substance. At the end of the day, is there also something in for the West in your “strategic payoff”?

Anyone else on a “Heal the World” trip besides Michael Jackson and Fred Smith? How about you TainanCowboy? What’s your take on this issue?

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Ya know games, if you bury your head in the sand like that, you’re bound to get your ass shot off.

Your lack of compassion and honesty is sad and refreshing at once.

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Yeah but the really funny thing is that he’s calling Fred a bleeding heart! And what does TC think? Fischer’s Green’s no less! That has to be a classic post right there!

:roflmao:

HG

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AQ’s second in command has released a new video, not in reponse to the bombing though.

cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/ … index.html

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I bet 20 AQ “second in command” have released videos.

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I bet 20 AQ “second in command” have released videos.[/quote]

I was wrong. It isn’t a response to the bombing.

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The lack of compassion … maybe. But I think the naivety and gullibility when “helping the poor, poor 3rd World” is even more saddening. And probably counter-productive too.

Just noticed … cost in lives wasn’t mentioned? Speaks volumes about “compassion”.

Regarding my “lack of honesty” - I want to reject that notion. I am at least honest enough to tell that that if the Middle East regularly screws itself over, that I consider that their very own problem and business. I consider this way more honest than making such a big huff-huff about how much I claim to care … then ask someone else to pay for what I myself am too lazy to do.

I mean, take a look jdsmith. What has been your personal contribution so far to “lift the poor people from the Middle East” out of their self-inflicted misery? I mean something you volunteered to do, not just something someone else did with your taxes where you had no choice about it. Can you name anything? I can’t for myself. So why should I now pretend I really care. If I would, I’d do something.

Calling Fred a heart-bleeding Green do-gooder … is there really such a big, big difference as he claims? I mean, the Greens are a bunch of big-mouthed ideologues cought up in a them-against-us pattern, talking big and fawning their vanity at someone else’s expenses. The heart-bleeding is professed only to shame others into following otherwise silly policies. What I like about the Greens more though than about Fred: they at least have the decency to discredit silly ideas like multy-Kulturalism, the 1st-world-guilt-dogma or socialism with their example, vainity and antics.

The thing with TC though was genuine. I’d really like to know what he thinks about the money spent to “lift the poor Muslim masses”. He’s been sceptical about such expenditures in Africa.

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deleted

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Games -
Thanks for your posts. It helps me understand your perspective a little more clearly.
I may be a bit closer to your viewpoint than Mr. Smiths.
While not an isolationist, I think that there is a definite need for an organization somewhat similar to the original intentions of the United Nations, maybe closer to what The Hauge is evolving into but with some actual enforcement capabilities, I am more of the opinion that the strong will survive and hand-outs should be limited to personal(read - National) interests.
That may sound a bit harsh, and I do believe in benevolence as in sharing medical and science to an extent. But there has to be limits.
IMO there is nothing wrong with having the interests of ones Nation as a prime motivator and priority. Nothing selfish about it. If one country increases its worth - either technologically, educationally or in any number of other ways - all of that countries allies will benefit.
If a country continually follows a course of despotism, thieving politicians and agression towards its neighbors…then f*ck 'em. Politically, financially and if needed militarily if they pose a continued threat either as a nation or thru clients.
As far as money spent to lift the “poor Muslim masses”…ridiculous. They will hate us (the USA) before we do it, as we do it and after its done. Saudi Arabia has money, Syria, Dubai, Bahrain and that guy in the Pacific who’s always buying the white women for his palace has money. Let them help their fellow Muslim brothers & sisters.
I also believe most of this war, and most other political instability, could have been avoided with the tasking of selective target removal by covert means. And if a country has to go to war, and I dearly hate for it to happen, do it and do it fast, hard and with finality.
The only rule is victory.
Well, thats it for tonight.

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[quote=“games”]
The lack of compassion … maybe. But I think the naivety and gullibility when “helping the poor, poor 3rd World” is even more saddening. And probably counter-productive too.[/quote]

One good point among many.

[quote=“billy bragg”] Neither in the name of conscience nor in the the name of charity
money is put where mouths are in the name of solidarity.[/quote]

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you make your bed, then you have to lay in it.

us foreign policy over decades has pissed off many people.

us money went to some nations. others were pissed about it.

maybe our foreign policy over the past half century should have been less monetary and less military.

the us wasnt attacked in feb’93, the ussCole '00 and the northeastern us 9/11/01 just because it was something to do on a sunny morning.

it was the backlash of those pissed about how our foreign policy favored some and not others.

those favored were long time enemies of others. which therefore put us in the same category-enemy.

now here we are.

we couldnt just sit back on 9/11/01 and say, “well, that’s what we get”, now could we?

our past came back to haunt us that day in a way like no other.

now here we are.

it wasnt like these attacks were unprovoked.

but instead of looking at the real cause of the events, we step it up.

terrorism came home. the terrorism we helped create by years of foreign policy.

this “war on terrorism” is a mess we helped create, and now it’s too late to go back and undo what we’ve done for the past 50 years.

now we are stuck.

where will it end?

it will be the same number of generations that have seen it coming, as those number of generations that will hash it out, as those number of generations that may see it end. that is, 3 generations of build up, 3 generations of hashing it out, then another 3 generations to let it go and finally move on to a peaceful coexistence.

we are only in the beginning of the “hash it out” period. that leaves many decades to work things out, that is provided all nations’ foreign policy becomes sound and fair.

jm

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games wrote:

I just want to clarify this. I said, “your lack of compassion” and “honesty,” not “lack of honesty.” :slight_smile:

As for what have I personally done for the poor in the ME…ask me that about the poor in Taiwan and I’d have a better answer.

Why do I have to personally do something for them? Isn’t that what I have a government for?

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There is some ambiguity in the sentence although I can’t see how “lack of compassion and honesty” could ever be construed as “refreshing” unless you’ve become a sadist. :slight_smile:

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There is some ambiguity in the sentence although I can’t see how “lack of compassion and honesty” could ever be construed as “refreshing” unless you’ve become a sadist. :slight_smile:[/quote]

Well, I give games the compliment of being honest by stating he doesn’t give a shit about the people of the ME. Ok, that’s fine. I’m sure he’s not the only one.

On the compassion side, though. I feel he’s being somewhat selfish.

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More on Zarqawi…
The last thing he saw were American uniforms…heh heh heh
Al-Zarqawi spoke, then died as US medics tried to save him

Jordan refused to have his bodu buried on their soil… :smiling_imp:


“Your ass is dust Mister and I am the broom!”

Get Dem VerGeens Homey!

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Whatever. Snap Snap Snap…

You would have probably had a lot of support on that pre-9/11. After that, we suddenly realized that these people can very much become our problem very suddenly. Ask all those immigrants coming to Germany these days when they plan on moving back home? The more trouble and stagnation over there, the more of them you are going to have over here. Think about it.

My, my how open-eyed and honest you are.

The reason that we are going over there is for very much the same reason we came over to clean your (our) house up in order when you decided that Hitler was a great idea and that Germany should rule the world. It is completely understandable that so many of the Middle Eastern political and racist pathologies were imported and nurtured during the 1930s.

[quote]Huang Guang Chen wrote:
Yeah but the really funny thing is that he’s calling Fred a bleeding heart! And what does TC think? Fischer’s Green’s no less! [/quote]

Ummm. I guess I had better explain to Games that my avatar is a joke. It shows a retired Fischer, a man that I detested beyond all measure unless compared with Carter or Schroeder and even still…

I frequently attack multiculturalism and do-gooderism and socialism. I cannot imagine how or why you think that I am suddenly sympathetic to these positions? BUT I do think that we need to do some political housecleaning in the Middle East. We tried the status quo for 60 years and that apparently has not done the trick. Lucky for us the Africans have not figured out how to export their problems through terrorism or we would have to do a lot more nation building in those fucked up messes as well. Lucky us.

We are not going to uplight the Muslim masses, we are going to forcefully reform their dysfunctional governments so they stop exporting their fucked up fuckwits to our shores. Let them deal with these problems at home. A thriving democracy based on rule of law seems to be the way to do that.

Ironically, even though the US lost the Vietnam War, the result has been what? Did Vietnam not become or is it not in the process of becoming the very type of nation that we would have wanted? Ditto for these Muslim messes. Do they really not want to be successful thriving economies? based on democracy? rule of law? tolerance? I think most of them do. That is why I think that this effort will succeed. During the Cambodian civil war, Chinese Civil War, Japanese imperialism, Vietnamese war and communist insurgencies throughout Southeast Asia, during the 1960s and 1970s, most would have viewed East Asians as hopeless basket cases with a propensity to violence and borg-like mindless slavishness to dictatorial mass messages, but lookee lookee, what a surprise. I believe that the same will some day be said of the Middle East. There is a lot there and one day it will make its contribution to the world and not through bombs or terrorism but civilized discourse.

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[quote]Palestinian gunmen hand over abducted American citizen to IDF
By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent, and News Agencies

Members of an armed Fatah militia which claimed to have kidnapped an Israeli Saturday transferred the individual in question, a U.S. citizen, to the custody of the Palestinian Authority before dawn Sunday.

The PA security forces subsequently handed the American over to the Israel Defense Forces. Defense officials believe once the militants discovered the person was indeed an American citizen, they took steps to end the matter quickly.

"
Apparently, the kidnappers did not want to end up like Zarqawi
," a defense official said. [/quote]

haaretz.com/hasen/spages/725176.html

That lump in your throat, son, is your liver.

:laughing: :bravo:

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Geee…it works… :smiley:

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Heads on pikes usually do.

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People - Iraqis, Persians, Afghanis, Pakistanis, etc. can determine for themselves what type of government structure they want whether is be a theocracy or democracy, without or without the rule of law. They don’t need the U.S. to come in and tell them this is what you should want, and here we’ll give it to you (shove it down your throats). I am not interested in funding the liberation of countries throughout the world via military means. I would like to see the liberation of countries throughout the world via economic means. Ending poverty in the third world, for example. All the other high falutin’ stuff you speak of doesn’t amount to a hill of beans when you’re hungry and destitute. Finally, shouldn’t we clean our own damn backyard? Gays don’t have equal rights. Bush and the Republicans are trying really hard to divert attention from the real problems in our country and the world by trying to pass an amendment to the Constitution that would deny Gay folk their civil rights. That sucks.

Bodo