Nearing the end of my forth year here in taiwan and I have worked at more than few schools and companies, all of which have at one time or another asked me to something that was illegal.
At the end of my first year I discovered that the ARC I had was for a school other than the one I worked at which was a kindergarten. I asked the boss about it and she said it was fine and not to worry. After spending at least 3 weeks being passed from one person to another in the CLA I finally got a straight answer, ILLEGAL! I talked to my boss and said I could not continue, she demanded I do so or she would turn me in!
I called her bluff.
next job is at a large company where their idea of legal was whatever lie they told me that day, after 3 months I left.
next job, another school this one in the year i worked there did not manage to keep even one item on our contract in tact… promised 20 hours got 3-6 but held to contract. If i left she would blacklist me. Constantly told to work for her friends at other schools, refused got fired. However, I had her on tape telling me to work at another location. We have an agreement that if she blacklists me I turn the tape into my brother in law at the CLA
Next job another large company these guys want me to constantly lie to their customers and forge documents, like production orders and units sold etc…
WTF?
HELP!
I am married and have a very stable and solid life. I am trying to be a good citizen but it sems like everything is against me following the rules. it has come to the point that everytime a employeer asks me to do something new I have to check with the CLK and most times it is comp[letely illegal.
I think that this is an excellent topic and one that we can all relate to.
I think that a lot of the time schools and employers do things that are technically illegal due to stupid laws and regulations. At times these regulations are unpractical and pretty much unworkable. An example of this is the change in regulation a while back which effectively prohibits teachers from working until their work permit and ARC have been obtained - a change from the previous practice where you could work in the interim provided that you could prove that you had submitted the paperwork. In almost every case teachers and schools will ignore this as in almost every case there is no problem. But as you point our this does not make the practice any more legal and for someone who just wants to do the right thing during their time here in Taiwan it means that they are not off to a good start.
I think that the key long term is to find a good employer and one that understands what you want. Going into business on your own sounds like a possible way around these problems but there are so many temptations there too that it is probably much easier to stay with an established company. This all becomes much more important the longer you are here and when you start to get foundations such as buying a car and house etc.
I agree however that it is very, very difficult to keep your nose entirely clean when the regulations and accepted practices often push you toward doing things less than legally. My best advice is to stick to your guns if there is anything that you are very uncomfortable doing such as the forging of paperwork that you mention. It might hurt you a bit in the short term but I think that you will find that it will pay off over the longer term.
I have never worked at a place in Taiwan that has done everything perfectly legally. It just isn’t practical. I think you’re going to have to bend your principles just a little. But this is mostly about the hiring practices- doing demos (now illegal) and working while paper work is in process (illegal). The rest, you can find an employer that will do things completely legally once you actually have a job with them.
What you are complaining about are serious issues:
working at a kindergarten is illegal
a school not giving you minimum hours as promised in a contract is breach of contract
schools requiring you to work at other branches not listed on your ARC is illegal
These are long term conditions that could end up having you deported if your school is raided, whereas doing a demo and working while your work permit is getting processed is temporary.
Some other practices are gray areas you’ll have to decide for yourself: Working for a school that requires a deposit and working for schools that report a lower income to the tax authority so that taxes are lower. Both of these things are illegal, but they are a very common practice here. These things won’t get you deported, but they are still illegal.
[quote=“shifty”] If i left she would blacklist me. Constantly told to work for her friends at other schools, refused got fired. However, I had her on tape telling me to work at another location. We have an agreement that if she blacklists me I turn the tape into my brother in law at the CLA
[/quote]
According to a woman I spoke to at the CLA, you cannot be blacklisted unless you simply walk away from your school. You can quit and break contract. If the school doesn’t hear from you within 72 hours then you can be blacklisted.
So if you want to leave then do it in writing or bring a video camera and tape yourself telling your boss that you are quitting.
I’m not sure of the phone number but there is a hotline that you can call at the Central Labor Bureau to confirm this.
I guess you are married to another non-ROC citizen, otherwise you should not have to worry about the CLA. Please clarify.
Man, you are so right.[/quote]
Just recently married, we thought that would lighten the strain but it brought on a whole new can of worms.
Try getting a straight answer as to where and how much you can work when you are married with a JVRC!
Same office 3 different days three different answers.
As for the blacklist, it sems that anyone can be put on it for any reason. there is no chance to defend yourself or refute the charges, it is just done. If an employer has to lie to get you put there I am thinking they will; it is not like you get to go defend yourself, My god that would mean someone actually had to do their job or apply reason and thought to their duties!
As if!
According to my friends that are married, you should have an open work permit. So you can work anywhere a Taiwanese person can, that is assuming you are married to a Taiwanese [erson. It’s illegal for a regular teacher on a teaching arc to work in a kindagarten (though there are ways around that too), but people on the JFRV are ok .
I hear what you guys are saying, and thanks for the replies.
I guess I am just a little tired of constantly ducking and diving from all the legalities and misinformation. I am frustrated, I feel like there is nowhere I can turn to get a straight answer in the Government offices. I am constantly being shuffled from one person to another, from one ministy to another, and nobody seems to have an answer. It seems that no matter whom I talk to they are unwilling, or unable to give me an answer.
For instance, when I got my first ARC someone at the police station made a clerical error and gave me an ARC number for Tainan. When I went to file my taxes that year the tax office saw the number and said “hey how come you don’t have any income from Tainan we know you worked in Tainan you are hiding money!”
It took 2 weeks to get it sorted out and only because I happened to have my receipt from the Taipei office which issued my ARC. They of course admitted it was weird but no one would fix it nor would they admit they had made a mistake.
I was promised that it was all-ok and not to worry.
Next year I went to file taxes, the tax office saw the number and said, “hey how come you don’t have any income from Tainan we know you worked in Tainan you are hiding money!”…
I have gone out of my way to follow the laws as they are set forth, never mind they change constantly and no one seems to know them at any Government office…
More than anything I guess I am disgusted at my employers because I know that they are willingly risking my deportation with a smile a wink and a “do Not worry so much, it is ok.”
You know, that’s a good point. Many of these buxibans don’t really think of the risk as “serious” because #1, the risk of getting caught is low and #2, they aren’t the ones facing deportation.
Sure, they could take a financial hit if they are caught and they are the ones who are in the wrong, but that is measured against how much they stand to gain by continuing their employment practices.
But just imagine if this was the US or UK and you pinned all your hopes on a life here. How would you feel about an employer who endangered someone’s immigration status just to make their life a little easier back in your home country?
Now, I would be miffed if I ended up getting deported because my employer was cutting corners, but I could always just set up shop in another country or go back home and teach. It would be problematic, but it wouldn’t wreck my long term plans. Some others like Shifty would have their long term plans drastically impacted. Staying legal would be more important, and the system just isn’t set up to encourage that.
Can we even list one 100% legal school? No kindergarten, gets you a work permit for all locations you work at, no work before the work permit is issued, no demo class in front of students, no deposit in the contract, and reports your taxes at the true rate?
Joy School is just one of many that I know of. But then it depends upon which school within that chain you go for. Some positions will be outright illegal with no work permit while others are the complete opposite. I know that you can work there however 100% legally if you want.
Thing is I am not just talking about schools, I am talking about every company I have worked for. They were, it seems, ready to risk my deportation on a weekly basis to cut a few corners or tell a few lies.
Jesus half the time they were commiting fraud they wanted me to sign my name to the forged papers. I have been fired from more than one company for refusing to sign my name to forged or inaccurate documents.
Again I feel like I have nowhere to turn to, is there any Govcernment agency that is not an incompetent mindfuck?
Including proper reporting of tax and not working at more than one branch?[/quote]
Yes including proper reporting of tax and not working at more than one branch illegally.
As mentioned in my post above this is not an endorsement for all schools with Joy on their sign as each school within the chain is run differently.
The question was to name one school that you can work at 100% legally and I can say without question that certain Joy Schools can do this.
I also alluded to the fact that there are many more that offer you the opportunity to work 100% legally and without the grey areas that some positions involve. I am not saying that these schools are run entirely above board as I have no idea what they may get up to behind closed doors, but I do know from personaly experience that everything teacher wise is above board.
Including proper reporting of tax and not working at more than one branch?[/quote]
Yes including proper reporting of tax and not working at more than one branch illegally.[/quote]
Well, that would be good information to highlight on buxiban.com.
Would you mind sharing which branch(es) you know of that are 100% legit? I’m not looking for a job right now, but I’m sure some people are and this could be useful for them.
I believe the attitudes the original poster expressed are very representative of Western mentality. It took me many years and a lot of traveling/living in different cultures to understand they flaw in this type of thinking.
In the West we are taught that the societies we live in are noble and correct. That our democracies are the most advanced, and our people are the free est. I think many will agree this doesn’t hold true.
It’s in other parts of the world (places that have a bad connotation or are portrayed badly in our home countries) where you can find societies with true freedoms!
The key to remember is that you are replaceable. 100%. Just another foreigner. Lots of them coming off the planes each and every day, and willing to work for ever cheaper wages.
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