Definitive list of 250s available here

Life Cars & Motorcycles
1

So I just watched Long Way Round and realized I can’t afford a GS Adventurer of me own, but my wife liked the show so much she’s now almost accepting that I’m having myself a slightly heavier bike. It’ll still be a white-plater though.

Apart from the Venox (a possibility), the Hornet (far too uncomfortable for me and too high-revving for sane commuting), and the Grasstracker (crazy tiny small) what exactly are the options here for 250s?

I’m looking for comfort, I 'aint built for speed. But I don’t want no damn scooter.

2

Sand, you should ride a Majesty 250 before you say that. Double discs, low seating position, lots of room for legs, oodles of power, tons of storage room, your feet stay dry even in downpours, and the price is, well not cheap, but certainly cheaper than a “real” motorcycle.
Remember what happened to MJB?

[quote=“MJB”]I’m pretty much used to being able to meander around on the RZ pretty much unmolested in the acceleration department with the exception of the odd-NSR and of course the big bikes.

The scooter in question was a 250Majesty, and I’d never seen one before today. If what motorcyle rider says is true then it will simply outgun the RZ on topend. [/quote]

3

Sand, you should ride a Majesty 250 before you say that. Double discs, low seating position, lots of room for legs, oodles of power, tons of storage room, your feet stay dry even in downpours, and the price is, well not cheap, but certainly cheaper than a “real” motorcycle.[/quote]
Pah, I say. Pah! What, do I LOOK like teh ghey? :wink:

Kidding. You know me by now. I just 'aint having no scooter.

4

for non-scooters, there’s also the VTR250… slightly cheaper than the hornet, but not as sexy…

as for the venox… i’ve had a look at the specs… and they’re pigs on paper… overweight and underpowered - torque included…

and the hornet… hell… i commute on one 4 days a week (for home-work-home)… just not for thursdays, cos my night job has no safe parking for the hornet and i don’t have time to swap bikes usually… no problems at all…

… and if you say the hornet is uncomfortable… well… everybody is different, but i don’t have a problem with her…

5

regrettably your own list was fairly comprehensive sandman…

The 250 market is sorely under catered to, not just here, but almost everywhere in the world bar Japan… To maintain relevance if we only look at 250’s currently officially available in Taiwan the list would be:

Kymco Venox 250:

Suzuki “grasstracker” 250:

Honda VTR 250:

Honda Hornet 250:

That’s it for the official list and even then the Hondas are not really officially available here… Then there’s the 250cc scooter section, the best of which would probably be the Yamaha Maj 250, but those are out you say… so lastly there’s the offroaders which are represented with a decent range of 4 and 2 stroke engine machines from almost all the major Japanese factories, almost all grey imports and almost all great fun, but pointless on the road…

In my opinion the 250 class in Taiwan represents the most unfavorable ratio of bang vs. buck on the market right now… Your paying in the region of NT$170,000+ for 250cc bikes with only a shade more oomph than a 150cc… for under a hundred grand more, you’ll be in 400cc territory and for slightly over a hundred grand more you’re in 650cc territory…

even if we avert our eyes from the temptation of bigger capacity, the 250 class is still not bringing much to the table… they’re all engineered down to a price point, they’re all somewhat wheezy on the get up and go front, and importantly you’d better be well under 6 feet tall and slim to consider any of them if not looking like an elephant riding a bicycle is a priority for you… pictured above (with a small Taiwanese rider on board), the Venox perhaps just manages to dodge the bullet on the comfort count, but it gets hit by every single one in the performance/looks/build quality/spec shootout… you really would be better getting a 150cc Kymco, taking the price difference and buying a year’s supply of Talisker to make you feel better about it…

unless a supermoto version of an offroad bike appeals to you, and if practicality is what you’re after it shouldn’t… the only sensible option if you must have a 250cc would be the Hornet… The VTR is the better looker with its “urban chic” pseudo Ducati trellis frame and it’s a V-twin which his nice, but it’s physically smaller, less practical and you’ll not get nearly the amount of aftermarket kit and luggage etc that you can get for the Hornet to smooth out it’s rough edges and make it a real world commuter, fun on the weekends type bike… if you slap on a Corbin comfort seat ,get a GIVI top box for luggage and the Honda higher screen, the Hornet will be as close to a ultra reliable, comfortable, practical, fun, 250cc commuter as you’re likely to get, but by that stage after you’ve paid for those mods, you’ll be well inside CB400 price territory… unless you find yourself one of the people on the island who jumped at the Hornet 250’s when they arrived on the market and now want somthing bigger, and are looking to sell their mini Hornets 2nd hand… so that’ll be all of them then :wink: … This may well be the best compromise if you absolutely must have a 250, but it comes with the nasty flip side that the poor thing has probably had the living daylights thrashed out of it by the previous owner in countless face saving exercises when out on the road trying to keep up with other bigger bikes…

So the only real answer for 250s seems to be forget practicality, forget price, forget reliability, forget commuting, choose life, choose madness, choose GP cornering, choose one of these: :smiley:

6

I wouldn’t touch the Venox with a ten foot pole. Kymco basically went out and bought a VTR, then reverse-engineered the motor. It’s a straight copy of a 10 year old design, with Kymco quality parts. I’ve ridden a VTR and its engine sounds and feels exactly like two yehlangs cobbled together. Miles of threshing cam chains, noisy valve gear, all revs and no power. Agricultural. You can imagine how much worse the Kymco version would be!

That Aprilia is enough to make any red-blooded biker burst into flames, but sadly you would never get it through the emissions tests here. Not through the front door anyway.

7

How about off roads / dirt bikes?

I’d really like one, but I haven’t seen any in Taiwan.

I don’t want to do MX or something crazy, it’s just for showing off. :slight_smile:

Your suggestions will be highly appreciated.

8

[quote=“plasmatron”]In my opinion the 250 class in Taiwan represents the most unfavorable ratio of bang vs. buck on the market right now… Your paying in the region of NT$170,000+ for 250cc bikes with only a shade more oomph than a 150cc… for under a hundred grand more, you’ll be in 400cc territory and for slightly over a hundred grand more you’re in 650cc territory… [/quote]Right. Sandman, I think you could well be disappointed by a 250.

9

Engineered to a price point? Sorry to have to say it, but that’s precisely what I’ll have to look for – I’m not prepared to spend more than about 150K for a 40km per day commuter, new or used. I won’t be riding it on the weekend – when I go into the country, it’s mostly to hike or picnic, so I use the car to get to the trailheads.

All I want is something with a bit more poke than my Dragfire, which is getting a bit long in the tooth these days.

Why do you say this? Matter of fact, that’s one of the available options – the shop nearest me has a Yammy TR (or is it TW? Can’t remember), which is a baby supermoto built around a bulletproof but pretty ancient 4-stroke 200cc unit. It looks waaay cool. Why would this be such a bad choice?

10

If all you want to do is a 40km commute, I’d take that Suzuki flat track thing and call it good. Decent torque/weight ratio, narrow… I bet it’s a blast in traffic. You’re riding a custom now so the riding position will be similar… As a plus it’ll be waaay better on gas than the Hornet. Much easier to maintain as well.

11

[quote=“redwagon”]If all you want to do is a 40km commute, I’d take that Suzuki flat track thing and call it good. Decent torque/weight ratio, narrow… I bet it’s a blast in traffic. You’re riding a custom now so the riding position will be similar… As a plus it’ll be waaay better on gas than the Hornet. Much easier to maintain as well.[/quote]The saddle isn’t very comfy, but alright for 40km I suppose. (Even less comfy for a passenger).

What about the issue of poor reliability of Suzuki singles that was mentioned before?

Does look like fun though, if a little pricey.

12

+1 on the Suzuki…cheap and easy to run with no frills, if that’s what you are looking for…

Cheers

13

Here’s a strange thing: I can’t find a bad review of the Venox. First two search pages on google throw up nothing but raves. And it’s cheap. Sounds good to me, and it sure looks nice. Plus, I’m not that tall or heavy.

14

[quote=“joesax”]
What about the issue of poor reliability of Suzuki singles that was mentioned before?[/quote]They used to have a bad rep, but I haven’t heard any tormented screaming noises for a few years now. :wink:

Hmm. A quick search reveals it’s the sohc engine and that’s remarkably similar to the one in the older DR250 and GNX250 models. The current (since 2002) DRZ250 has twin cams. IIWY (Sandman) I’d search around the forums to see if there any complaints about the cams on the sohc motor. Suzuki had a bad habit of feeding the cams on their singles with a starveling diet of hot, dirty oil… with predictable results. They may have improved the design since then, and to be honest I recall a lot more anger about this with the older 2-valve engines than the 4-valve models, but I’d check and be sure.

15

I see a few Venoxes around here. Yes, all the reviews from abroad have been good.

The power to weight ratio isn’t good. But they look quite comfy.

I think 180,000 is too expensive, though.

16

I thought they were a lot cheaper than that, right enough. My friend Athula was quoted at NT$140,000 just a few months ago.

17

I’d take an old RZX or Breeza over the Venox any day. I’ve worked with Kymco before. If there’s a right way to do something and a cheap way, they’ll take the cheap way 10 times out of 10. The scooter powertrains are as good as they are because they’re mostly designed in Europe. The Venox was entirely an internal R&D (Ripoff & Duplicate) project. Yes, there are favorable reviews of new bikes but how are they after 20 or 30,000km? That’s where you see what they’re made of. Even the Honda they copied wasn’t that good. Hell, even the garbage made in China is okay off the lot… but they all die after 6 months.

18

Weird. I had one of those Kymco 150 Custom thingies before. Got it new and rode it every day for about six years with not a single problem. Gave it to a friend whose still riding it. Thing must be over 10 years old now and still going strong, so I’m not at all worried about a Venox dying after 6 months.

[quote]I’d take an old RZX over the Venox any day.[/quote] Yeah, a tiny stinky little stroker would be great fun for sure, but my hobby isn’t hanging around junkyards looking for non-existent spare parts, so that kind of puts that out the window. I need a bike that’ll run and run reliably with the absolute minimum of maintenance. :wink:

19

[quote=“sandman”]Weird. I had one of those Kymco 150 Custom thingies before.[/quote]Yes, but the pushrod 125/135/150 engine is a Honda design, made from their drawings and their tooling. The original engine is real Ostfront material, it will run forever given an occasional oil change. If some parts are off spec or half worn, it just keeps going. The Venox lump Kymco reverse engineered long after they parted ways with Honda. They simply bought a used VT250, stripped the engine and mic’d the parts, took a guess at what they were made of. It’s a far higher-revving design and much more sophisticated so it has much less tolerance to sloppy machining work. Comparing it to the pushrod single is like comparing a hand-cranked grinding wheel with a CNC machine. If you had to buy one from Taiwan, which would you have more faith in?
Arguments about reliability aside, the Venox has a poorer power/weight and torque/weight ratio than the Suzuki, and you said you wanted something with more poke. I don’t think the Venox can get out of it’s own way.

You could get a VTR250 and put taller handlebars on it if you want a twin but don’t like the crotchrocket riding position. I’d have a lot more faith in the build quality and the price difference isn’t so huge. Resale value will be much better also.

I hear you loud and clear on the parts situation re the RZs, but that doesn’t apply to the Breeze. Of course it’s nice to buy new though.

20

Why do you say this? Matter of fact, that’s one of the available options – the shop nearest me has a Yammy TR (or is it TW? Can’t remember), which is a baby supermoto built around a bulletproof but pretty ancient 4-stroke 200cc unit. It looks waaay cool. Why would this be such a bad choice?[/quote]

supermotos are great city bikes, no doubt… if it’s assignment will be commuting 40km a day and thats it, then they could be ideal, I assumed you were after more of an allrounder… the drawbacks of supermotos are that they are very high, the long, skinny motocross saddle is a pain in the arse, literally, the tank range is abismal and you get bog all storage space and nobody makes aftermarket luggage for supermotos… if that works for you then by all means look at them, they do make great short distance city bikes…

if your budget is NT$150k then there’s plenty out there for you to look at… http://tw.f5.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/e12363856 this was the first of a list of many on yahoo for 250 hornets… if it’s going to be a “work and back hack” commuter and you’re looking to get something cheap, but reliable, then I’d look at the 2nd hand Hondas first and see if you can’t come across something good… it’s a buyer’s market in the used 250cc category IMO… going new in the 250 market seems like an easy way to take an unecessary kick in the financial teeth from the first owner depreciation if what you want is a commuter only, function over form bike… if you never intend to sell it, this doesn’t matter mind you, but there’s nothing in the new 250cc under NT$150K bracket, other than perhaps the Venox and, well, just approach with caution is all I’d say about it… it’s 28 horses are spread mighty thin over it’s 200kg+ on the road weight…