Big bikes, loan quests and comments

Moderators note: I split this off from the [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/definitive-list-of-250s-available-here/26626/1 list of 250’s available here[/url] thread. Was going off topic and I’m probably the instigator. :homer:

I took one out for a spin (20th anniversary edition) on Monday. It’s quite quick for what it is, and would easily outgun my RZR.

Actually it was my neighbors bike, and since he knows I’m chomping at the bit to pick up the Kawasaki, he was kind enough to hand me the keys to all 5 big bikes he had, Starting with the Serow, and ending with the BMW 1200GS whopper that Plasmatron rides. Very, very nice way to finish up your Monday labor day holiday.

By the way Plasmatron, that is easily the smoooothest and most comfortable bike I have ever ridden. One classy machine.

Someday…But for now I think I’ll be perfectly content with the Ninja. :sunglasses:

so you took one of Bavaria’s finest out for spin then eh?.. yep, the GS really is the Swiss army knife of motorcycles… there’s nothing it can’t do, and it’s fantastic for tall buggers like me…

how are the battle plans coming along for the Ninja MJB?.. When I saw you in Taipei you mentioned there was some headache with the banks being of the opinion that you are unacceptably non-Taiwanese… I’ve subsequently talked it over with Skylarkpuma (damn I wish he’d change his handle :wink:) and putting the loan through in his name alone, even as a big nose, and with a local mate co-signing in case he does a runner, he got the loan… for a lot more than NT$300k too, if they can be that generous to him, perhaps you should talk to the bank he went through…

[quote=“plasmatron”]so you took one of Bavaria’s finest out for spin then eh?.. yep, the GS really is the Swiss army knife of motorcycles… there’s nothing it can’t do, and it’s fantastic for tall buggers like me…

how are the battle plans coming along for the Ninja MJB?.. When I saw you in Taipei you mentioned there was some headache with the banks being of the opinion that you are unacceptably non-Taiwanese… I’ve subsequently talked it over with Skylarkpuma (damn I wish he’d change his handle :wink:) and putting the loan through in his name alone, even as a big nose, and with a local mate co-signing in case he does a runner, he got the loan… for a lot more than NT$300k too, if they can be that generous to him, perhaps you should talk to the bank he went through…[/quote]

I guess it’s only a Ninjette when refering to my bike, eh?

As far as the loans go…for my first loan I had a bank executive as a co-signer. No bank would approve it…and he contacted many of them. Motorcyclerider (an even longer handle) is fluent in Chinese…and has family here…and they wouldn’t give him one with a co-signer either.

So I’m under the impression that either skylark is actually the co-signer whether he realizes it or not…OR…he got really lucky. But as a rule of thumb…foreigners can’t get loans…even with co-signers.

naturally… :rainbow:

[quote]As far as the loans go…for my first loan I had a bank executive as a co-signer. No bank would approve it…and he contacted many of them. Motorcyclerider (an even longer handle) is fluent in Chinese…and has family here…and they wouldn’t give him one with a co-signer either.

So I’m under the impression that either skylark is actually the co-signer whether he realizes it or not…OR…he got really lucky. But as a rule of thumb…foreigners can’t get loans…even with co-signers.[/quote]

nope, I know the co-signer very well… I asked him as well if he was sure it was Skylark’s name, not his and I believe his reply was something along the lines of “do I look like an idiot?..” There maybe some relevance to the fact that it was the same bank and agent that financed Skylark’s car loan as well… Still as MJB is an extremely stand up member of society and a business owner no less, they should have no excuses… Give Skylark a PM MJB and give his guy a call, there’s already a good precedent established with his bank guy that he’ll have a hard time going back on…

Alternatively MJB you could try what I did when I was fighting to get a local credit card and just storm into the bank that your company does their Taiwan based banking through and just start bellowing “do you have any idea who I am?.. my company gives your bank a lot of business, business that could easily go elsewhere, savvy?.. branch manager?.. what the hell use are you, get the area manager down here immediately…” etc. etc. it’s amazing what “face” dissolving hot air can accomplish if you rock the boat enough… :laughing:

I know I have posted this info several times before.

Five (six?) years ago I bought a new car. The dealer had to ask around a little before they found the only bank that was willing to set up the finance for me. Citibank. It was my name on the loan, and my co-signer was one of my in-laws. IIRC they wouldn’t accept my wife as co-signer. The funny thing was, a month or two after lending me the money to buy a new car their credit card department decided I was a good prospect and offered me a card. I don’t know if this still applies however, I heard some things have changed at Citibank.

[quote=“plasmatron”] Still as MJB is an extremely stand up member of society and a business owner no less, they should have no excuses… Give Skylark a PM MJB and give his guy a call, there’s already a good precedent established with his bank guy that he’ll have a hard time going back on…
[/quote]

Interesting development on the loan department, and apologies in advance for pulling this off topic, but my loan has been approved. Spouse co-signs, but loan in my name.

Guess I’m in :sunglasses:

You should have just put the money towards CBR600RRs. Way better value and a cheaper bike when bought used.

Mordeth has been comparing every riding experience he has had in the last 6 months to his old CBR600RR,
I’m sue he regrets buying his Kawi and selling his 600 and won’t tell us that. Why buy a smaller, expensive bike when you could have a way better bike for less money?

I’m sure we will be reading your posts in 6 months, “I think I want to step up to something bigger.”

There is not much you can do with that bike that the CBR600RR can’t do.

Just because you have been riding RZRs and FZs for years doesn’t mean that you can’t handle a bigger bike. I’m sure you guys are pretty good riders and would be able to handle bigger bikes like a CBR600RR.

You’ve got the loan, why buy a Yugo when you can afford a Ferrai??

PS I’m not trying to insult you Mordeth, just using you as a reference because you posted on this. I’m not trying to insult you , but if you take it that way well…Personal insult deleted by Moderator.

[quote=“Bubba 2 Guns”]You should have just put the money towards CBR600RRs. Way better value and a cheaper bike when bought used.

Mordeth has been comparing every riding experience he has had in the last 6 months to his old CBR600RR,
I’m sue he regrets buying his Kawi and selling his 600 and won’t tell us that. Why buy a smaller, expensive bike when you could have a way better bike for less money?

I’m sure we will be reading your posts in 6 months, “I think I want to step up to something bigger.”

There is not much you can do with that bike that the CBR600RR can’t do.

Just because you have been riding RZRs and FZs for years doesn’t mean that you can’t handle a bigger bike. I’m sure you guys are pretty good riders and would be able to handle bigger bikes like a CBR600RR.

You’ve got the loan, why buy a Yugo when you can afford a Ferrai??

PS I’m not trying to insult you Mordeth, just using you as a reference because you posted on this. I’m not trying to insult you , but if you take it that way well…Personal insult deleted by Moderator.[/quote]

Wow…that post actually didn’t offend me in the slightest. I read the entire post with a smile thinking that your logic was completely understandable (if not entirely correct)…until I read the last two words :noway: . So I’m going to respond with logic to deal with your own…and then I’ll finish my post with rudeness…again, in response to your own.

I’ve been comparing the Ninja to my old CBR because…that’s all I have to compare it to, considering that’s the only other large displacement bike I’ve owned in the last 8 years.

The only thing the CBR was truly better at…was acceleration at higher speeds…namely above 200km/hr. And as I get older and wiser, that’s an area I start to want to stay away from…the 200+ area. <edit: And the suspension was better for high speed cornering >

MJB, prefers to ride mountain roads…twisty ones…and let me quote AMA racer #6, he’s also president of the Arroyo Seco Raceway, he says “Well in the twisties it’s a totally separate issue. I know guys that can flat out haul on small twins in the mountains, smoking everyone on big bikes. That’s what’s so fun about these things, you can actually push them to their limits and still be somewhat safe compared to trying to do the same on a big bike.”

You also have better leverage and slow speed control with bars in comparison to clip ons (sportsbike handles).

You also have the low end torque with the 650R that you don’t have with a sports bike. I was riding with a guy on a Kwak 636 (ZX-6r) and we were both at cruising RPMs…I punched the gas…he punched the gas…he watched me fly away…he downshifted…and I was still flying away…he down shifted again, ahh there’s some power…but it was a bit too late to catch me. His exact words were “Each time you’d punch it, I’d have to down shift twice just to keep up…you acceleration is amazing.”

In actuallity his 636 obviously has better acceleration…but he’d need to be riding around with his engine screaming to be able to have the power “on call”…meanwhile my power is in the lower-mid rpms…so it’s always there when I need it.

The Ninja can be fit with many aftermarket bags and trunks. Even if the CBR could…it would look like ass if it did. Mind you the Ninja won’t look better with bags…but it is a sport tourer…and won’t look completely out of place. Also sports bikes suck for passengers…and MJB has at least two lovely ladies in his life that I know of.

I do miss the suspension on the CBR…but I’m figuring out a few not too radical mods that should improve the Ninja’s suspension by quite a bit.

Here is another quote from a racer in america I just came across :

[quote] Obviously you guys have never been to a track day where the 600’s are smoking the 1000’s. Hell on my SINGLES bike, on a small twisty track I was beating everyone, literbike, 600’s - they didn’t have the low end torque that I did - they never had a chance to get into the powerband before I was already at the next turn.

On the right kind of roads a small torquey bike can easily keep up with a literbike.

Ease of turning: If you’ve never ridden a bike with clip-ons back-to-back with a bike with handlebars then you simply CAN NOT comment on ease of turning a bike in this discussion. I’ve ridden my friends Tuono back to back with his same year Mille R - you want to know which one was easier to turn? The one with HANDLEBARS. [/quote]

It’s difficult to reach any bikes full potential. But I’ve got a better chance learning to ride skillfully on a 650R that is more suited to Taiwan’s riding conditions…then some totally out of place liter bike that gets smoked by 600s…even on an American race track…unless there are 300km/hr striaght aways on it.

Guys on liter bikes often get stuck on the learning curve. I see guys who have been riding liter bikes for a while…and are scared shitless to do anything with it…because they’ve already had so many close calls with the rear end sliding out…or the front end jumping up 5 feet without them wanting it to. From my own personal experience, the guys who ride the liter bikes are the slowest…most unskilled riders on the road.

When MJB borrowed my bike…there was a guy there on a 1000RR. MJB asked the guy to smoke me in a short sprint…(just up to the speed limit or so…nothing dangerous) and the guy refused…like I knew he would. Why? Because he’s scared of his bike…and he knows there’s a good chance he’ll loose to my bike…even though he has more than double my horse power :laughing: :bravo: .

Sorry if my diss’ing liter bikes offends you Redneck insult referring to lack of male appendage removed by Mod.

And another good quote with regards to “more is better” which fits the 250cc topic as well:

From motorcycle-usa.com:

[quote=“Mordeth”]You also have the low end torque with the 650R that you don’t have with a sports bike. I was riding with a guy on a Kwak 636 (ZX-6r) and we were both at cruising RPMs…I punched the gas…he punched the gas…he watched me fly away…he downshifted…and I was still flying away…he down shifted again, ahh there’s some power…but it was a bit too late to catch me. His exact words were “Each time you’d punch it, I’d have to down shift twice just to keep up…you acceleration is amazing.”

In actuallity his 636 obviously has better acceleration…but he’d need to be riding around with his engine screaming to be able to have the power “on call”…meanwhile my power is in the lower-mid rpms…so it’s always there when I need it.[/quote]

aaah… seems like just yesterday we were discussing this very topic and no matter how many times I explained this concept Mordeth insisted “so what, I’ll just use the clutch to access the high rev power” “600 supersports bikes are still the best bikes you can buy… the weight/power/handling can’t be beaten… who cares if the power is higher up the rev range I’ll still smoke anything on the road…” etc etc.

glad you’ve seen the light Mordeth… honestly… :sunglasses: I think that could serve as an eye opener of sorts though… you tend to post rather fiery dismissals of every type of bike other than the one you happen to have at the time, which often puts people’s back up… it’s natural to like the bike you own, especially considering you chose it and what they cost you on this island, but at the same time, your little turn around I mentioned above should bring the point home that there is more than one route to biking Nirvana in Taiwan… liter bikes are a handful, sure… but dismissing them offhand, even though you say in the last 8 years you’ve only owned the CBR600 and now the 650 Ninja :rainbow:, never a liter bike is kind of jumping the gun… sure big power can equal big problems if you don’t know what you’re doing etc. etc. but don’t be too quick to write them off, if nothing else most liter class bikes are the flagship models of their respective factories and as such tend to come with tasty suspension, and good quality well setup suspension is a massive factor on Taiwan’s rubbish surfaces, mountain or otherwise… the budget suspension could be the biggest Achilies heel of your Kwak…

anyway, I guess what I’m getting at is “don’t believe everything that you read…” when it comes to liter bikes and in addition, what you see on the roads of Taiwan with regards to liter bike rider’s skill/speed means pretty much nothing about what the bike can do… remember 99.99% of these guys had never swung a leg over anything bigger than a 125cc SanYang until 3 years ago… of course they are going to be tip toeing about with a spare pair of underwear hidden under the seat… :laughing: as you know if anything I agree with you that a liter class sportsbike would not be my first choice for Taiwan, but I definitely wouldn’t underestimate the potential of one ridden properly…

Good post. But I’d like to clarify that I’m not doing a 180 on my CBR “so what, I’ll just use the clutch to access the high rev power” stance. I’d kick my own ass on a CBR vs my new Ninja. But from what I’ve seen of most guys on the road…and after already riding with a few 600 supersports…there aren’t a lot of other guys who could. So yeah, I could beat me…but other than me, who could beat me? :laughing: :wink: I’m just kidding, no flames please.

Plus I’m not really comfortable with the Ninja yet…so right now I’d probably be quicker on my old CBR…but in a few months…who knows?

It’s as simple as this…a 650R is easier to ride than a 600 supersport and a 600 is easier than a 1000 supersport. The potential for each bike gets higher along with the difficulty in riding it. So although the 1000s have the most potential…even experts riding them on the track have difficulty keeping up with “easier” bikes due to the levels of skill needed to run the 1000s fast.

And although I consider myself a better than average rider (isn’t hard in Taiwan), I’ll be the first to admit that the CBR was a bit too much bike for me. My ego isn’t as large as some people think it is (not directed at you Plasma…just saying in general).

P.S. I have ridden a few liter bikes in the last couple of years…just haven’t owned one.

All the recent posts are making sense…I often think that performance comparisons between litre bikes torque and power Vs smaller bikes Torque and power are just marketing strategies to maintain good sales with people who just can’t afford the $$$ for a litre sportbike…It’s kind of a way to reassure the buyer that he’s not a total “road turtle” on anything less than a litre bike!..I could be wrong but it seems logical…I did have a 600 sportbike before, which was the 600RR I sold to mordeth, and then I had a litre streetbike, the Z1000 and I did notice a good increase in power and it was all good fun…exept the handling of the Z1000 wasn’t as good as the 600RR…if I had gotten a 1000RR, I would have used that extra power for sure, so there’s no doubt in my mind that a 1000cc sportbike IS faster than a 600cc sportbike if ridden properly! That’s a fact! Litre bikes may intimidate those who don’t think that finesse is required to ride well, that would explain the extra underwear under the seat that plasma is talking about!..

Cheers

“Captain Stag”…

ahhahah… mwahahhahahha… :roflmao:

[quote=“Bubba 2 Guns”]You should have just put the money towards CBR600RRs. Way better value and a cheaper bike when bought used.

Mordeth has been comparing every riding experience he has had in the last 6 months to his old CBR600RR,
I’m sue he regrets buying his Kawi and selling his 600 and won’t tell us that. Why buy a smaller, expensive bike when you could have a way better bike for less money?

I’m sure we will be reading your posts in 6 months, “I think I want to step up to something bigger.”

There is not much you can do with that bike that the CBR600RR can’t do.

Just because you have been riding RZRs and FZs for years doesn’t mean that you can’t handle a bigger bike. I’m sure you guys are pretty good riders and would be able to handle bigger bikes like a CBR600RR.

You’ve got the loan, why buy a Yugo when you can afford a Ferrai??
[/quote]

Hmm…

Ok, maybe the Honda is a superior machine in performance and handling. But it doesn’t fit my big bike mission statement for the following reasons.

  1. I’ve got a bad back.
  2. More power than I’ll ever need, and all in the wrong place. I followed a 600RR up towards Baling a few weeks ago, and the poor devil never got it out of first gear!
  3. Light weight and power down low is all good for carving up narrow twisties.
  4. Tired of buying other peoples used junk.
  5. Want something I can ride to Smangus, not a fun proposition on a 600RR.
  6. Will be doubling daily. Have to pick up the little one from school.
  7. I love the Ninja’s power band, and not having to wind the motor up to 10k plus to get it moving…That would scare the hell out of me.
  8. I’m sure the bike has more potential than my skill could ever wring out of it.
  9. Will be a daily commuter, not only for weekends.
  10. Excellent price point (For Taiwan anyway)

Not the least ashamed to say I’d likely not have the ability to ride something like a 600RR to it’s full potential…Hell, I reckon I’ve got a fairly steep relearning curve ahead of me just with the Ninja.

Loan fell through…(had to go with the traditional foreign spouse is a non person route). Sick of waiting, so gave in and will sign the papers tonight. Want to have the ride in hand at least a few days before our Wuling trip so as to not look too stupid the first time up.

[quote=“MJB”]

  1. Will be doubling daily. Have to pick up the little one from school.

…Want to have the ride in hand at least a few days before our Wuling trip so as to not look too stupid the first time up. [/quote]

My neighbor has a Fazzer 600…as far as I can tell, about the only thing he uses it for is picking up his daughter from school. What’s with old guys trying to impress young school girls on big bikes? What do you do…give them your number and tell them to call you in ten years or so? :stuck_out_tongue:

There is a holiday at the end of this month…it’s on a monday. So we’ll have a long weekend. Maybe we can do a quick jaunt down to Kenting or something. That should give you enough practice to impress uhh, somethingHottie on the forumosa bike trip. :wink:

Ok, the deed is done…I pick up the beast at 4pm tomorrow.

Guess there is a 1992 RZX for sale if anyone is interested. :sunglasses:

[quote=“MJB”]Ok, the deed is done…I pick up the beast at 4pm tomorrow.

Guess there is a 1992 RZX for sale if anyone is interested. :sunglasses:[/quote]

Keep the RZX…everyone needs a beater for leaving outside of train stations…etc.

If you plan on parking the Ninja outside sometimes…and I think you do. Don’t forget to buy some disc locks. Plasma’s alarm lock couldn’t hurt. And I’d slap on two others as well if you’re leaving it alone for more than a couple of hours.

And congratulations!

Congratulations!!!..
:bravo:

Always good to have another member of the 2 wheeled foreign legion…
What colour are you going to go for?.. I heard the silver ones are faster… :smiling_imp:
kidding…

Thanks :slight_smile:

Combination of nervous excitment, and a bit of trepidation over theivery. I need to pick up a lid as well, found one that fits ok (nice and tight) but is a little tight on the forehead. Shark brand, price is right.

If anyone’s got opinions to pipe in on what other goodies I need, then please…No matter how obvious.

Picking up today:

Helmet. I like plain…And safe. Looking at a “Shark”.
Riding gloves.
Motorcycle cover.
Mesh style body armor jacket.
Knee guards.
Lock.

Next few weeks plan to pick up:

Soft Saddle bags.
Tank bag.

And when it cools down…

Full leathers.

PS: Yes, the bike is Silver :wink:

Congratulations MJB, hope you have a lot of fun with your new toy. :wink: