Emergency! Advice needed tonight!

Legal Legal - Work
1

I am in a predicament right now.

I’ve been working at a school for a little over 2 months. I can’t stand the place, my roommate (came two weeks before I did) quit the same school and went back to the United States almost a month ago. Two more teachers are leaving next month. I gave my landlord notice that I’m moving out next month. It’s not so much that the school is a complete monstrosity as I do not feel it’s the right place for me. It has a high turnover rate and there are many things wrong with the running of the facility. I have been unhappy and sick. Right now I have bronchitis and feel very stressed out. I’ve been on the school’s case about my ARC. I was supposed to have it last week. The manager told me the ARC office “ran out of supplies” :ponder: and they would mail it “next week.” This week arrives. They say it will come soon.

Ok, so I have found a great school where I would love, love, love to work. The school wants my current school to sign over the ARC which I highly doubt they will do. The prospective employer checks my passport and claims that according to the stamp I should have had my ARC on July 2nd. Now I know I probably sound dumb right now, but all of the teachers at the school were told they have to wait for their ARC to arrive by mail once they get the stamp. New school tells me current school is probably hiding my ARC in drawer. For whatever reason? I don’t know.

This morning: I ask manager for ARC. She says “Will come soon.” I say “Oh, because I have made a friend in government here who says that according to the stamp in passport I should have my ARC already.”

She says “You contacted government!”

I state again that I recently made a friend in government here who checked out the stamp in my passport. Suddenly she says “Ahh, I forgot.” She opens her drawer and pulls out my ARC. “Your ARC arrived by mail yesterday.”

Twenty minutes later she is freaking out and says “Teacher, tomorrow we must sign contract.” Apparently the contract I signed overseas isn’t sufficient? I heard that I have to sign a contract here in English and Chinese in order for the employment to be valid. However, how is it that I now hold an ARC when I never signed anything after arriving in Taiwan?

At this point there is no doubt in my mind that I was to leave this school at once. So I need some immediate advice.

New school wants me to tell current school my last day of work will be next Friday. I know this is short notice. However, as I don’t even have a “real” contract I’m sure it doesn’t matter. With that being said, there is that stipulation that when changing jobs one must sign a “cancel contract agreement” with their current school. What exactly is this form if I never signed a contract upon arriving in Taiwan?

There is also a stipulation in the contract that I have to pay a fine of 20.000 NT if I breach the contract. Since the pay period is from the 1 of the month till the end of the month I highly doubt they will pay me anything now. It sucks but I am willing to part with the pay (even though I worked myself silly which has contributed to my sickness) because I can’t stand the place. It is really unfortunate and I know I was too naive. This is my first time coming to Asia and my first time working as an ESL teacher so I’m really learning from this experience.

If the school refuses to give me a cancel contract form, what can I do? Also, does anyone know why a school would hide ARC’s from teachers? Apparently most of the teachers do not receive their ARC’S until their 3rd month. According to the new school, ARC should be given within one month of teacher’s arrival.

Sorry if this sounds like a lot of confused whining, I just want to know exactly what I’m up against.

2

[quote=“Skyfae”] New school tells me current school is probably hiding my ARC in drawer. For whatever reason? I don’t know.

Also, does anyone know why a school would hide ARC’s from teachers? Apparently most of the teachers do not receive their ARC’S until their 3rd month. [/quote]
They do this to stop you from running away - just like employers in Taiwan who keep the passport of their Philipina maid/slave, even though keeping someone’s passport is illegal.

Some bosses are vindictive and will blacklist you. If you are really willing to give up your pay they might be willing to sign the form, but it is not fair for you to get no pay. Maybe your new school could help you?
There are labour boards in Taiwan that will help foreigners. Look in the Legal forum.

3

Welcome to Taiwan!

4

Definitely look in the forum called ‘Work’ in the ‘Legal’ section.
If you just run away the school can (and will) blacklist you and you won’t be able to work legally in Taiwan again.

5

[quote=“bababa”]Definitely look in the forum called ‘Work’ in the ‘Legal’ section.
If you just run away the school can (and will) blacklist you and you won’t be able to work legally in Taiwan again.[/quote]

Hmmm but how is it running away if I am telling them and not just vanishing overnight? Also, what about the contract I never signed? And I thought the blacklist was just something that was made up to scare people.

6

There must have been a contract to get your work permit.

Wait until you get paid to give your notice.

7

I signed a contract while overseas. Like I said, after I caught her in the lie and she handed me my ARC, she then said “When will you be available to sign the contract?!”

It doesn’t make much sense…

8

I signed a contract while overseas. Like I said, after I caught her in the lie and she handed me my ARC, she then said “When will you be available to sign the contract?!”

It doesn’t make much sense…[/quote]

She wants you sign a new one in Chinese, probably, possibly with different terms and conditions.

9

[quote=“bababa”]Definitely look in the forum called ‘Work’ in the ‘Legal’ section.
If you just run away the school can (and will) blacklist you and you won’t be able to work legally in Taiwan again.[/quote]
Won’t. Can’t. There’s no such thing. The most a school can do is report you to the Council of Labour Affairs, which usually sides with the employee rather than the employer in cases such as yours. As bababa says, check the Legal forum for the number for the CLA. It CAN and WILL help you. Got a recording device? Switch it on whenever you have a conversation with your boss.
IF she asks you about the contract again, just tell her that you’ll sign it once your friends at the CLA have looked at it and have verified that the old one is no longer valid. After all, it is the OLD one that has been used as the basis for your work permit.

10

[quote=“Buttercup”]There must have been a contract to get your work permit.

Wait until you get paid to give your notice.[/quote]

I was going to wait until I get paid until I give my notice, but the new school wants me to start on August 1st due to training purposes. It’s a really great school and I don’t want to pass this chance up. It sucks because I’m sure present school will not pay me anything based on what I’ve heard from teachers who left. One girl said they wouldn’t sign her cancel contract form until she agreed to forfeit an entire months pay. According to our contract it says we must pay 2 weeks but she claims the owner said he can change the contract any time he wishes.

11

Yes, he can, because his employers are all fresh off the boat. Changing the contract is not legal, but it is perfectly normal behavior in Taiwan. Talk to the CLA, and you may be able to get some of your pay plus the signed contract release form.

12

Call the CLA. You must play by the rules, but so must they.

Hope it goes ok for you, and good luck.

13

Hi Skyfae,

If your ARC is valid from the 2nd of July, then your work permit must have been issued in the 15 days prior to that (you are allowed 15 days to create an ARC from the issuing of the work permit). Your school must have done that for you.

You are only legal to work after the work permit has been issued.

If caught working before the permit is issued you can be deported and the school can be fined (NT$750,000).

Therefore the earliest your work permit could have been issued in the 17th of June. (there’s no way the school would want to pick up a NT$2000 fine for being late.)

Try to get a copy of your work permit. Check the date.

Labour law always overides terms of your contract. For example your contract requires 2 months notice. Labour law does not support this. The ammount of notice is dependent on the length of time worked.

AFAIK Employer and employee need not give 30 days notice in the first month of employment. You can double check this on the Information for foriegners site, http://www.iff.immigration.gov.tw, or call free from a landline or mobile 0800 024 111. They speak English. Make sure you check which article it is, and point number (ie article 5, point 3 says…)
Get the relevant number for your local labour Bureau (not the same as the Council of Labour Affairs). They deal with employee grievances.

Most likely you are still in your first month of employment.

The fine is technically illegal anyways.

If I were you, having said you have a friend in the government, I would say the friend had advised you to see a copy of your work permit for peace of mind. Employees don’t normally have this, but you’re perfectly entitled to a copy.
When they baulk at giving it to you, which they will, insist. If they continue to hedge you can suggest that you no longer feel comfortable working for them. Tell them you are handing in your notice. Have it with you in writing.
Make them sign/ put the school chop on a pre-prepared sheet accepting that they have recieved it. This is essential.

If they won’t don’t tell them that you have already done the next thing earlier that day.

Send a recorded delivery copy of your resignation to the school, addressed to the school manager. Once they’ve signed for it, they’ve recieved it.

If you keep calm and can present them with the relevant articles of the law, they’ll most probably want to get you out of there double quick before you ‘corrupt’ the other teachers. So politely, but firmly make them aware that not only do you know the law, but that you have a new friend who is prepared to help you enforce it with them.

You are entitled to be paid for the hours you have worked. Again check the relevant point of the labour law. Know it. If possible print out the English and Chinese versions (which your friend gave you, of course). Highlight the relevant points in English and Chinese.

BTW, when speaking to the Labor Bureau I would maintain that you started work in ‘late June’ as technically you’d be illegal before that point. I imagine the school would play along with this, as they don’t want to get fined either. Perhaps other people can advise on this?

I would definitley call the bureau to double check my rights/ understanding of the law.

If nothing else make sure you call the labour bureau once you are settled into your new school and explain about the withholding ARCs trick. The school will probably get a visit or a call, which should hopefully stop them treating others in the same way.

Try not to have a meeting in the reception area of your school. Go into a private room so that you aren’t making the manager lose face in front of others. He/she might just sign the cancel contract agreement with you just to get rid of you, if you give them the option to do so discretely.

AFAIK the points I’ve made are all accurate, but I do advise speaking to the labour bureau to double check. Plus then when the manager starts being arsey you can pull out your phone and call the guy from the labour bureau.

Good luck

Kitkat

14

[quote=“kitkat”]Hi Skyfae,

If your ARC is valid from the 2nd of July, then your work permit must have been issued in the 15 days prior to that (you are allowed 15 days to create an ARC from the issuing of the work permit). Your school must have done that for you.

You are only legal to work after the work permit has been issued.

If caught working before the permit is issued you can be deported and the school can be fined (NT$750,000).

Therefore the earliest your work permit could have been issued in the 17th of June. (there’s no way the school would want to pick up a NT$2000 fine for being late.)

Try to get a copy of your work permit. Check the date.

Labour law always overides terms of your contract. For example your contract requires 2 months notice. Labour law does not support this. The ammount of notice is dependent on the length of time worked.

AFAIK Employer and employee need not give 30 days notice in the first month of employment. You can double check this on the Information for foriegners site, http://www.iff.immigration.gov.tw, or call free from a landline or mobile 0800 024 111. They speak English. Make sure you check which article it is, and point number (ie article 5, point 3 says…)
Get the relevant number for your local labour Bureau (not the same as the Council of Labour Affairs). They deal with employee grievances.

Most likely you are still in your first month of employment.

The fine is technically illegal anyways.

If I were you, having said you have a friend in the government, I would say the friend had advised you to see a copy of your work permit for peace of mind. Employees don’t normally have this, but you’re perfectly entitled to a copy.
When they baulk at giving it to you, which they will, insist. If they continue to hedge you can suggest that you no longer feel comfortable working for them. Tell them you are handing in your notice. Have it with you in writing.
Make them sign/ put the school chop on a pre-prepared sheet accepting that they have recieved it. This is essential.

If they won’t don’t tell them that you have already done the next thing earlier that day.

Send a recorded delivery copy of your resignation to the school, addressed to the school manager. Once they’ve signed for it, they’ve recieved it.

If you keep calm and can present them with the relevant articles of the law, they’ll most probably want to get you out of there double quick before you ‘corrupt’ the other teachers. So politely, but firmly make them aware that not only do you know the law, but that you have a new friend who is prepared to help you enforce it with them.

You are entitled to be paid for the hours you have worked. Again check the relevant point of the labour law. Know it. If possible print out the English and Chinese versions (which your friend gave you, of course). Highlight the relevant points in English and Chinese.

BTW, when speaking to the Labor Bureau I would maintain that you started work in ‘late June’ as technically you’d be illegal before that point. I imagine the school would play along with this, as they don’t want to get fined either. Perhaps other people can advise on this?

I would definitley call the bureau to double check my rights/ understanding of the law.

If nothing else make sure you call the labour bureau once you are settled into your new school and explain about the withholding ARCs trick. The school will probably get a visit or a call, which should hopefully stop them treating others in the same way.

Try not to have a meeting in the reception area of your school. Go into a private room so that you aren’t making the manager lose face in front of others. He/she might just sign the cancel contract agreement with you just to get rid of you, if you give them the option to do so discretely.

AFAIK the points I’ve made are all accurate, but I do advise speaking to the labour bureau to double check. Plus then when the manager starts being arsey you can pull out your phone and call the guy from the labour bureau.

Good luck

Kitkat[/quote]

Thank you for all this information!

I will make use of it for sure!

One silly question: If they sign the cancel contract agreement this week, let’s say we post date it for next Friday, there is no way that they can go ahead and cancel my ARC earlier right? I know this sounds silly as it would have to do with the date on the cancellation contract but I have heard stories and I’m worried that my new school would not be able to get my paperwork in on time if current school tries to do something like this.

15

I haven’t read this entire thread, so I don’t know if this has been said before–sorry.

DO THIS: Go to the foreign affairs police and tell them what you told us. They can tell them to sign the changing ARC form for you. The school doesn’t HAVE to do as the foreign affairs police say, but they are likely to do it because they don’t want to be investigated. If they’re telling you to wait for your ARC by mail and keeping it in a drawer, then they’ve also got some other practices that are not exactly by the book. Also, if you took this to the labor council, they’d have to pay you any monies owed to you and also risk being investigated.

Don’t be intimidated. There’s no blacklist. The worst that could possible happen is that you’ll end up having to go to HK for a visa run.

Also: NEVER leave your legal documents with someone else. You CAN, and you SHOULD, take care of getting your ARC yourself. If you don’t think you can do it yourself, then at least insist on going WITH the school person who goes to do it for you. Do not leave your documents with anyone from school. You could have gone and picked up your ARC and passport yourself.

Sometimes Taiwanese bosses like to be “kind” to noobs and do everything for them because it’s just too hard for them if they don’t have Chinese, blah, blah, blah. There are people in all the appropriate offices that can speak enough English to work with you–after all, it’s just jumping through the same hoops–you won’t have to have any more communication than, “bring in this, this, this, photos and this much money. Come pick it up on this day.” Don’t be taken advantage of. You don’t have Chinese, but you are a grown-up.

16

No need for all that, housecat.

So much stress for nothing. Here’s how it works. The school does not apply for your ARC. You can do that yourself, but some schools do it for you. What they do is apply for a work permit. Once you have the work permit, you can apply for the ARC by yourself as many schools instruct you to do.

This said, you are allowed to have up to three work permits. In order to retain the ARC, you only need a minimum of one valid work permit.

In brief, you do not need to worry about your current school. Just accept the job at the new school, provide them with what they need to apply for the work permit and that’s that. They do not need permission from your current school to apply for a second work permit for you. Once the new school gives you your second work permit, you can just go to the immigration bureau or whatever it’s called and have them enter the new school in their records as a second employment sponsor. Remember that you only need one sponsor.

If anything, get the ball rolling with your new school and try to delay the first school if possible. If your new school is cool, explain to them that you visa situation is precarious and they should be able to get the work permit within 10 to 14 days.

As for labor laws and contracts with the school, the bottom line is the law supersedes the contract and the only avenue employers are left with is a civil lawsuit. And that NEVER happens. By law, you are not required to give any notice within the first three months of employment. More than 3 months requires one week’s notice, and more than a year requires two weeks. More than 3 years requires a month’s notice or more depending on the nature of employment.

In other words, you can just wait until pay day, take you money and walk. Call in sick for a week before pay day as to not lose so much back pay. I would have no qualms about doing that to an employer that goes" Oh sorry, I forgot that your ARC came in" immediately after he/she said" your ARC should be in soon." Clearly, they keep the ARC in the drawer for three months as leverage against new teachers. Anyone experienced with living here would freak out and would start asking who will pay for the visa trip to Hong Kong. It’s very inconsiderate of an employer to mess around with someone’s sense of security in a foreign land. These people suck.

marboulette

17

[quote=“marboulette”]No need for all that, housecat.

marboulette[/quote]

No need for what? FAP? They were very helpful to me in a similar situation once, when the school keept promissing an ARC but never actually got it. It was a very large school and difficult to deal with. FAP was quicker and easier–they made one call and everything was sorted out.

I wasn’t trying to be harsh with my advice about taking care of yourself and doing your own leg work. It’s just smart to take care of things yourself as much as you can. The OP’s school is obviously taking advantage of her, and it won’t be in just this one way, either. In the future, she can avoid a lot of trouble by being in controle of her own affairs.

18

I’m just saying that the OP can go about applying for another work permit without any worries. That’s the OP’s main concern, I believe, but there is no need to cancel one’s work permit prior to applying for a second work permit. There’s no need to involve the FAP, here. The OP has his/her ARC in hand as of now. There’s little the FAP can do to help because the school did provide the OP with a work permit in the end.

If you have your ARC, you shouldn’t even ask your first school to cancel anything until you have your new work permit. Just walk (given how they have treated you.).

Just my 2 cents.

marboulette

19

[quote=“marboulette”]I’m just saying that the OP can go about applying for another work permit without any worries. That’s the OP’s main concern, I believe, but there is no need to cancel one’s work permit prior to applying for a second work permit. There’s no need to involve the FAP, here. The OP has his/her ARC in hand as of now. There’s little the FAP can do to help because the school did provide the OP with a work permit in the end.

If you have your ARC, you shouldn’t even ask your first school to cancel anything until you have your new work permit. Just walk (given how they have treated you.).

Just my 2 cents.

marboulette[/quote]

That’s right, she does have the ARC, now. The thing is convincing the new school that she doesn’t need that letter, then? (Good advice, Marboulette, if she can use it.)

20

[quote=“housecat”]The thing is convincing the new school that she doesn’t need that letter, then? [/quote]That is correct. Up until roughly two or three years ago, teachers were only allowed to have one work permit. Many employers are not aware that it is now legal to work for multiple schools.

Before, a school would have to sign an ARC transfer form in order for a teacher to change school mid-terms. The government gave that up and transfers are no longer allowed. Cancellations and applications only, but with the addition of being allowed to work for up to three schools. It’s a big improvement in the regulations as far as the teachers are concerned.

marboulette