Meanwhile in Catalonia...


#341

Jesus wept.


#342

And the Spanish Senate approved intervention. Logically.

Everything is going as per a preset plan.


#343

So much for the EU’s call for force of argument over argument of force…


#344

Force is an excuse and any excuse is good for force.


#345

So I should give up this thread, but for those who are clueless but are genuinely interested in knowing what’s going on…

The majoe of Barcelona (capital city of Catalonia, Spain), doesn’t recognize the independence:

Only Farange and some other fascists and nutters support the indepentists. EU, and USA have already made clear that they only recognize Spain and give all their support to the legitimate government.

The Spanish “The Onion”, ElMundoToday (two guys from Catalonia, BTW), makes fun of how these politicians are playing this:

“Puigdemont introduces the citizen who will go to jail in his behalf”

Meanwhile, thousands of lunatics, mentally perturbated, motherfuckers, psychos, Spanish rednecks, and Catalan pseudonazis cellebrate a republic that doesn’t exist and seem to be oblivious to the fact that the party will be over very, very soon.

The central government has given the regional government lots of opportunities to get back to the legal way of doing the things, but they wouldn’t attend to reasons. With all the problems that it implies, the government doesn’t have any other alternative to cease the local government and take control of the local institutions. More than one idiot is facing 25 years of jail for sedition and rebelion.

Idiots… destroying the peace and economy of a country using their blatant lies and propaganda. Creating hopes and expectations that these politicians can’t satify, creating in this way a delusional movement running towards a dangerous frustration. It’s not my invention, they are words from a famous Catalan TV host:

But of course, these last 10 years whoever wasn’t a true nationalist/independentist was seen as a “bad Catalan” by the local fascists in the public institutions.

Not even Pablo Iglesias, who has been playing to get voters from Catalan nationalists and kinda sympathies with regional nationalists, recognizes this “republic”:

However, Pablo Iglesias and Podemos have been playing with fire and they are doomed (the party will die in the next elections…).


#346

Wtb pic of Palpatine with the face of the king of Spain saying:“execute order 155”


#347

It is indeed a sad day for most Spanish and Catalans. You, as many other uninformed people, think that this is “Catalonia” against Spain. That’s far from being true. Catalonia is divided. Secesionists have been in the power with less than half the votes (one vote is not one parliamentarian in Spain, it’s more complex than that), and the people who don’t agree with this is set aside and bullied by the more active secesionists.

It is a sad day even though I’m not worried about a declaration of independence that nobody with a minimum weight recognizes. It’s about the damage they are doing.

Of course, idiots can trol and that’s about all they can do.


#348

#349

If declaring independence is clearly a bad move with minority support, there were plenty of opportunities for the Spanish government to demonstrate that fact and win over the majority of Catalan people.

However, the Spanish government plays things rather heavy handedly. From arresting independence leaders, accusing them with treason, to police beating up people, and threatening to use Article 155, for people sitting on the sideline it seems like Spain managed to push more Catalans away. The “if you support independence then you are stupid and greedy” attitude seems to be the dominant Spanish sentiment, from the government to the people. It’s almost as if they forget that Spain would only win by winning over the Catalan people, not by attacking independence leaders.

Anyway, if there are things that the Spanish government is doing that’s not so heavy handed, I sure would like to learn about them.

Also, is there any way Catalonia could do an independence referendum that would be considered constitutional by Madrid? What turnout rate would it take for Madrid to accept Catalan independence?


#350

#351

Are you claiming there was no police brutality? Or are you just saying some of the photos online are from unrelated events? Those are two totally different things.

If there were no police brutality then why did Enric Millo need to apologize for it?


#352

It’s pretty naïve to claim that the declaration will have no effect. It might not work out this time and the autonomy of Catalonia could be shut down, but the damage has been done. Whatever reactions Spain have, a large proportation of the Catalan population want their own country. By using forces, arresting more officials, charging them with treason or coup d’état, the separatists would only be more encouraged and even the unionists might sympathise. There’s just no going back.

You can keep saying how no one is gonna recognise them or how they will be kicked out of the EU and how their economy will suck, that’s not gonna flip people’s minds. Spain might win this battle and this declaration might not mean much, but they have already lost the war.


#353

Also, this is going to affect the popularity (or un-) of various Spanish (or maybe we should be saying “former Spanish”) political parties outside Catalonia. As the PP goes down, who will go up?

We know that Russia likes to encourage this sort of thing. What do you suppose they will do next? One possibility is assassinations. (Could be of people on either side.)

The EU is revealing its true colors–as a not-very-democratic treaty organization dominated by a few large nation-states. It has lost the human rights mantle, and is going to lose a lot of popular support outside Spain. (It has already lost support due to economics–the euro–and immigration.)

Bring on the “Iberian Spring”!


#354

I don’t think the EU or other countries should get involved with Spanish politics presently.
.
This is a Spanish and Catalan issue they to try to work things out themselves peacefully first.

Failure on the Spanish side to have offered a referendum to deal with the wishes of a significant portion of Catalans to have a legal vote on the issue. Now this situation damages all of Spain.


#355

I already expressed my opinion. I don’t like repeating myself over and over, but I guess I HAVE to do it…

The “police brutality” that happened that day was very mild all things considered. There are several things you need to understand:

  1. several images used for claiming this violence were from other events. And many of the images were the same from different angles. Of course there were things that shouldn’t have been done by the police
  2. with “demonstrations” of over 2M people, to have only TWO real injured/hospitalized, should mean something, right? one was hospitalized because of a rubber ball shot by police hit his eye, the other one suffered a heart attack. The local government gave directions to all the health workers in Catalonia to count ANYTHING as “injured”. Excample: lots of people were attended for dehydratation…
  3. Go to any football league end and when the riots police act you will see more violence than what happened that day
  4. the independentists are using this “police brutality” as something that automatically validates their claims. This is obviously wrong, but the funnny thing is that their local police, following commands from their local government, has exercised brutality many other times. How does that make any sense? playing victims after having done exactly the same or worse other times?

I have said this all before and I have brought links to back it up.


#356

Yeah, it would be naive, but I haven’t said it won’t have effect. If you read my previous message from last night you will see that I was angry, upset and sad because this is not good for the country (and of course ng for the region of Catalonia and the locals either).

You say that Spain has lost the war, but check the history. This is not the first time that this happens…


#357

So they’ve declared independence. A necessary step. I’d feel contempt for them if they hadn’t after all this.

As for congratulations, I’ll congratulate them after they’ve won the war. Because that’s the real test. Anyone can declare independence. The trick is to enforce it.

Yes, I wish them well. May they be rid of their parasites at last. But there are reasons why people get oppressed and taken advantage of in the first place. Oppressors have game. They’re good at what they do. To get out from under, you need to beat them at that game.

Be strong, Catalonia. Be strong, or else.


#358

You said so many retarded things that I’m not even sure if you are serious or just trolling as usual. Whatever it is, I don’t care and I will bother to correct you only one thing: don’t say Catalonia. The independence never had much more than a 40% of the Catalan voters support. Ignorant.


#359

Possible new friend for taiwan?


#360

They aren’t anything but a region of Spain. The local government has been beheaded but they are on denial. They are a bunch of compulsive liars, delusional idiots, fanatics, mentally ills and psychopaths.

On the compulsive liars department, some call records revealed that the economic division of ERC under Junqueras lied to Puigdemont, hiding from him the economy reality of this “independence”: they weren’t ready for it.

But of course the important thing was to declare the independence that they already knew beforehand that wouldn’t work and that wouldn’t have the necessary support…