I think it happens in western countries too.
Added:
from my point of view, it is not one of “best” but closest to western way.
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Have we considered that maybe the problem lies with the English translation? Maybe weiguoren (“person from the outer countries”) doesn’t really mean “foreigner,” with all its attendant legal connotations, but represents an ethno-cultural label similar to Huaren. Notice that black people, and non-Chinese Asians, are usually not included in the category of weiguoren, but are assigned other ethnonyms. “White person” matches its intended universe, although the term does not explicitly refer to race or coloration. From this perspective, for a white person to not want to be considered a weiguoren is as ridiculous as a black person not wanting to be considered black.
Cf. the Inupiat kablunaq (anglicized as “kabloona”), meaning “bushy eyebrows” and referring to Caucasoid outsiders. (This is actually a better parallel with adogah.) The opposite of kablunaq would be inu, a true person or Mensch.
Recently, yes. Individualism is a traditional strength of the Western value system but identity politics are creeping in everywhere now. Many of the recent discussions in US media remind me of the Taiwanese blue vs. green / us vs. them farce.
English speaker.
what are you talking about? it means foreigner. and yea i’m sure some black people don’t appreciate being called hei ren either, infact its probably worse. and its not about being considered a wai guo ren. obviously i am one here. its about being referred to as one constantly in a way that keeps me in an outsiders category.
and andrew, do you think that any foreigner that doesn’t behave like shaun bettinson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEuRqOAOuhw&t= is miserable or what?
because kissing arse to this level is what would really make me miserable inside!
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You are an outsider and always will be an outsider here in Taiwan. That is just a cold hard fact. Reality. It wont change. This is not a multi-cultural society like countries in the west. You just have to accept that AND realize they mean you no harm by it. It is just how they use their language.
Wei Guo Ren
Outside Country Person
Even you get citizenship here you are not ethnically Taiwanese. You will always be called an Outside Country Person.
Even though we are called this, it does not mean everyone thinks of us as lower status, not included, outsiders, weird, etc. Not at all. If anything, it is said in admiration and as an observation. If it really bothers you that much, tell the people closest to you what you prefer to be called
As far as randon strangers, just roll with it.
I will agree with the Media part for the most part. But as a non white 3.5 generation Asian-American I have been called a foreigner often, with statements such as " You speak English like an American" or “Where do you live in Japan (I have a Japanese name)” this on a recent business trip in the Miami area from local government staff. So for me, some of the comments in my Native country are the same as I get here in Taiwan. (It does not bother me as much now, just get used to the comments and explain my part). America is a big place and a place like Hawaii this does not happen, but in area with less people like me I get comments like this. The funny thing, now days my time is split between Taiwan, New Zealand and Melbourne as well the States, in NZ/AU as soon as speak they know I am American (or maybe from Canada), something that at times does not happen in the States sometimes thus being labeled as a foreigner.
mate you are making excuses. being treated as an outsider and having it always pointed out to you is a rude and negative thing, its pretty cut and dry. i can accept always being a foreigner here, thats not my problem. what i don’t like is that taiwanese think the word wai guo ren is somewhat polite and formal and use it as such… pretty much repeating myself here.
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I identify as a Xin Taiwan Ren. Whenever anyone remarks on my foreignness, I drop that little tidbit on them (in Taiwanese). That shuts them up right kuai.
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Im not making excuses. Im not excusing rudeness. If people are being rude, then they should be called out for it. Someone calling you WaiGuoRen is simply not rude. Its just their only word in Chinese for people from other countries. Context would tell you if it was rude or not and most times the context is harmless.
What exactly does “being treated as an outsider” mean to you? One, You are an outsider. Two, so am I and I get the same service, if not better than locals get, in any shopping situation. I get paid a hell of a lot more than locals in my career field. I got a fair price on my house. People dont shun me or flee in fear or xenophobia when I walk by. If all these things equal “being treated as an outsider”, then sure, yeah treat me as an outsider because its been great!
In their language it IS polite and it IS the formal term to use when they have no idea who you are.
A shop owner is trying to help you and asks a clerk to assist you. The shop is full of people. They could say, please go help that man over there. Not really specific. Which man? The one in the coat. They are all wearing coats. Ok, the tall one. Etc etc. So they use the most specific term possible for efficiency. Please go help the waiguoren over there. Bam, they know exactly who to help. They are not being rude. That is all in your head!
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SuiGenerisnis partly right, partly wrong due to inexperience that can be forgiven. There are millions that have lived and worked in international environments for decades that know better but delight in the whole ‘laowai’ ‘waiguoren’ thing. They know it’s not right but they don’t care. Because there’s no incentive to care.
I have on the rare occasion met the parent who corrects the child blurting out ‘waiguoren’. Most Taiwanese parents could easily be like this. If they cared. Westerners mostly have an innate ability to know better. Now THAT is the real story. Put that in your pipe and smoke it
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You dont know me from Adam. You have no clue what my experience is. Dont assume.
Be forgiven? Wow, someone thinks extremely highly of their self. Thank you oh mighty GoGogoro for your forgiving mercy.
Give me a break and go take a hike.
What exactly is “not right” about someone using the only word in their language fit to describe a foreigner? This is their language, their culture, their home, their way. You are not in Kansas anymore Dorothy. Stop forcing you PC ideals on others when this whole idea of rudeness is absurd, purely in your own head. There is absolutely no intent to be rude here. They are simply speaking their language.
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This is pure childhood innocence. They are excited to see someone different. They are relating to you in a positive way. You are getting somewhat of a celebrity status from a child. Enjoy it and shrug it off as something special. The only harm is you making up the harm in your own mind. It certainly is not coming from the child.
Cared? Cared about what? This is their home, you ARE from a different place. The term is exactly for that.
In the west, we come from multi cultural places where we try to integrate everyone into our society equally so we refrain from using terms that categorize people. We dont say, hey look at that Asian! To us, in our home, it is not polite.
But once again, this is not our multicultural home with the same language and cultural taboos. You are taking your western ideas and trying to force it into their language when there was no intent to harm you.
Understand this, accept it, be at peace and you will be much happier here. I cant imagine how gloomy and terrible one might feel if they took offense each time someone used the term waiguoren. What a self inflicted dismal life that would be!
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Agree, accept it. Chill, but do not run around kissing taiwanese ass. You will be allways foreigner and just act as one. Do no try to be taiwanese, you will just make a fool of yourself. Do not put too much trust in locals, specially in their governement. Live your live, keep your values and try to make best of your stay in taiwan. Have great time.
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be careful of how you say it.
they think it is polite to use wai guo ren, and to treat everyone else as outsiders. sure, thats the excluding culture that exists here(lets face it, they even use wai guo ren when they are on holiday even they are actually the wai guo ). but that doesn’t make it polite.
if i use your examples back home would anyone use ‘that foreigner’ to point out a taiwanese in a shop back home? no, it sounds ludicrous. a taiwanese person also wouldn’t appreciate being called a foreigner. my gf came to my home town for christmas she was definitely and outsider being the only asian amongst a bunch of british country bumpkins. but we tried to make her feel more welcome not ram the point home by using foreigner this and that all the time… treating someone as an outsider is just an inherently rude thing imo, i’m not sure why its up for discussion.
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Chill dude
Lets go a bit deeper.
Why is it offensive to be called what we are? Im white. Someones says, look at the white guy over there. Why exactly is that rude? Its a fact.
Go help the Asian lady over there. That hispanic gentleman would like to order now. Etc etc.
Why have we in the western world decided to make this offensive?
Derogatory terms are rude, sure. That chink over there needs help. The wet back in the blue coat has a question. Ouch, yeah, that is offensive.
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This is too funny.
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Focus on the media, adult work environment etc…forget about the kiddies.
Constantly using laowai and waiguoren is wrong. Stop looking down on Taiwan as some backwater unintelligent dump. They are better than this
I’m having fun. You too?